P1000 P1000 broken engine mounting bolts

[RingMaster]

FWIW, I believe the reason they break is because of hitting something from the bottom. I'm pretty sure that my bolts broke when I was crawling over some massive Arkansas rocks. I rolled over one and had a very hard drop on a rock. My theory is that a point on the rock fit just perfect in between parts of the frame and hit the engine. I don't have a skid plate other than the crappy plastic factory one.

My friend described a very similar situation on his machine just before he heard the clunking too. No real skid plate on his either.

 

[DRZRon1]

FWIW, I believe the reason they break is because of hitting something from the bottom. I'm pretty sure that my bolts broke when I was crawling over some massive Arkansas rocks. I rolled over one and had a very hard drop on a rock. My theory is that a point on the rock fit just perfect in between parts of the frame and hit the engine. I don't have a skid plate other than the crappy plastic factory one.

My friend described a very similar situation on his machine just before he heard the clunking too. No real skid plate on his either.

good report out of info and feedback - thanks

 

[bumperm]

If there's clearance between skid plate and that mount, I wonder if it might be advantageous to install a reinforcement on the skid plate or frame to redistribute the load from an impact there. I haven't looked yet, so this is just a WAG. (I did buy the high strength bolts though). But changing the bolts alone may be trading one type of damage for a cracked case etc.

 

[Jerryg]

They could be breaking If they just simply worked themselves loose.

Might be something to re torque on a regular basis.

 

[ToddACimer]

I cracked an oil pan without breaking the bolts. My first guess would be loose bolts. Followed by harsh impact but I suspect loose bolts

 

[RingMaster]

I cracked an oil pan without breaking the bolts. My first guess would be loose bolts. Followed by harsh impact but I suspect loose bolts

Loose bolts sounds like an good idea, however the fact that the bolts were seized inside the threads seem to indicate they were not loose at all. If they were loose the easy out/bolt extractors probably would have worked.

 

[ToddACimer]

Loose bolts sounds like an good idea, however the fact that the bolts were seized inside the threads seem to indicate they were not loose at all. If they were loose the easy out/bolt extractors probably would have worked.

I would disagree. If the original bolts were not torqued they likely had an unintended load both vertically and longitudinally causing the bolt to break. This lack of clamp load and motion in the joint allowed moisture and corrosion in the threads and likely began to damage the threads in the aluminum engine case. Excessive wear in a joint between aluminum and steel accelerates galvanic corrosion. Better photos of the threads and hardware would clarify but any aluminum thread with corroded steel fasteners has a high probability of being a pain to pull apart.

 

[RingMaster]

Ohhhh, ok, I guess that could explain why it was sized. . . Could be.

 

[ChadD]

I would disagree. If the original bolts were not torqued they likely had an unintended load both vertically and longitudinally causing the bolt to break. This lack of clamp load and motion in the joint allowed moisture and corrosion in the threads and likely began to damage the threads in the aluminum engine case. Excessive wear in a joint between aluminum and steel accelerates galvanic corrosion. Better photos of the threads and hardware would clarify but any aluminum thread with corroded steel fasteners has a high probability of being a pain to pull apart.

You and dem big city words trying to confuse us folks 😁🤪🤣

 

[Haldog77]

Having read all of these comments, I have a theory on what may be happening. Maybe it is several things combined that is causing this issue. Zinc and aluminum DO NOT play well together so if the zinc plated fasteners have not been hydrogen embrittlement relieved (from the manufacturer), and no type of anti-seize was used (from the manufacturer), then the bolts are going to be super tight and super brittle. If they were sheered off by some type of impact, I would believe the sheer point would be closer to the outer edge of the aluminum. Looking at the pics, it looked as if the bolts failed further up into the aluminum which could be a sign that hydrogen embrittlement was present. The heat cycle of the engine (as discussed in earlier posts) has fatigued the steel fasteners causing the them to become brittle. If you heat carbon steel and quinch it, the steel increases in hardness. Granted, when you heat the engine to operating temp and run the machine through a water hole, the increase in hardness is very small. If you do this time and time again the hardness builds and could cause a failure. I am going to replace mine with cadmium plated, hydrogen embrittlement relieved, socket head cap screws. Just my thoughts about it.

 

[Neohio]

Having read all of these comments, I have a theory on what may be happening. Maybe it is several things combined that is causing this issue. Zinc and aluminum DO NOT play well together so if the zinc plated fasteners have not been hydrogen embrittlement relieved (from the manufacturer), and no type of anti-seize was used (from the manufacturer), then the bolts are going to be super tight and super brittle. If they were sheered off by some type of impact, I would believe the sheer point would be closer to the outer edge of the aluminum. Looking at the pics, it looked as if the bolts failed further up into the aluminum which could be a sign that hydrogen embrittlement was present. The heat cycle of the engine (as discussed in earlier posts) has fatigued the steel fasteners causing the them to become brittle. If you heat carbon steel and quinch it, the steel increases in hardness. Granted, when you heat the engine to operating temp and run the machine through a water hole, the increase in hardness is very small. If you do this time and time again the hardness builds and could cause a failure. I am going to replace mine with cadmium plated, hydrogen embrittlement relieved, socket head cap screws. Just my thoughts about it.

I hope you get like 100 of these and hand em out in TN.

 

[Haldog77]

I hope you get like 100 of these and hand em out in TN.

I think that is a great idea Beast. I will do the set for my machine and then make some extra sets in case someone else wants them at the T.O. I can do the plating and relieving at work so there won't be any cost for that. The only expense will be the bolts. I'll let you know when I get my set done. I will need to know if this problem is happening on the 500's, 700's and Talons. If it is, then I will need the bolt sizes for each of them and if not, then I'll just fix the 1000 issue.

 

[Neohio]

I think that is a great idea Beast. I will do the set for my machine and then make some extra sets in case someone else wants them at the T.O. I can do the plating and relieving at work so there won't be any cost for that. The only expense will be the bolts. I'll let you know when I get my set done. I will need to know if this problem is happening on the 500's, 700's and Talons. If it is, then I will need the bolt sizes for each of them and if not, then I'll just fix the 1000 issue.

Put me down for enough for 2 machines. Always good to have spares.

 

[Jerryg]

Having read all of these comments, I have a theory on what may be happening. Maybe it is several things combined that is causing this issue. Zinc and aluminum DO NOT play well together so if the zinc plated fasteners have not been hydrogen embrittlement relieved (from the manufacturer), and no type of anti-seize was used (from the manufacturer), then the bolts are going to be super tight and super brittle. If they were sheered off by some type of impact, I would believe the sheer point would be closer to the outer edge of the aluminum. Looking at the pics, it looked as if the bolts failed further up into the aluminum which could be a sign that hydrogen embrittlement was present. The heat cycle of the engine (as discussed in earlier posts) has fatigued the steel fasteners causing the them to become brittle. If you heat carbon steel and quinch it, the steel increases in hardness. Granted, when you heat the engine to operating temp and run the machine through a water hole, the increase in hardness is very small. If you do this time and time again the hardness builds and could cause a failure. I am going to replace mine with cadmium plated, hydrogen embrittlement relieved, socket head cap screws. Just my thoughts about it.

You are going to have to tone it down for @ChadD .

 

[ChadD]

You are going to have to tone it down for @ChadD .

Swamp 🫏

 

[RingMaster]

Having read all of these comments, I have a theory on what may be happening. Maybe it is several things combined that is causing this issue. Zinc and aluminum DO NOT play well together so if the zinc plated fasteners have not been hydrogen embrittlement relieved (from the manufacturer), and no type of anti-seize was used (from the manufacturer), then the bolts are going to be super tight and super brittle. If they were sheered off by some type of impact, I would believe the sheer point would be closer to the outer edge of the aluminum. Looking at the pics, it looked as if the bolts failed further up into the aluminum which could be a sign that hydrogen embrittlement was present. The heat cycle of the engine (as discussed in earlier posts) has fatigued the steel fasteners causing the them to become brittle. If you heat carbon steel and quinch it, the steel increases in hardness. Granted, when you heat the engine to operating temp and run the machine through a water hole, the increase in hardness is very small. If you do this time and time again the hardness builds and could cause a failure. I am going to replace mine with cadmium plated, hydrogen embrittlement relieved, socket head cap screws. Just my thoughts about it.

Nice info Haldog77 . . . and it matches the treatment that myself and buddy give our machines. We ride a lot. And there are several long waterholes at the beginning and end of our rides. We ride a few minutes, go through water deep enough to drown these bolts, ride for a few hours and then go back through this water again after the engine is good and hot. (We've gotten good at replacing wheel bearings too, but that's a different story.) So, I know that these bolts have gone through several hundred cycles, maybe 1000's since we hit other holes while out riding. You might be on to something. . . however, does this part of the engine really get hot enough to cause this. Surely it wouldn't be any hotter than the oil would it? It's not near the exhaust. Just a thought.

 

[DRZRon1]

Having read all of these comments, I have a theory on what may be happening. Maybe it is several things combined that is causing this issue. Zinc and aluminum DO NOT play well together so if the zinc plated fasteners have not been hydrogen embrittlement relieved (from the manufacturer), and no type of anti-seize was used (from the manufacturer), then the bolts are going to be super tight and super brittle. If they were sheered off by some type of impact, I would believe the sheer point would be closer to the outer edge of the aluminum. Looking at the pics, it looked as if the bolts failed further up into the aluminum which could be a sign that hydrogen embrittlement was present. The heat cycle of the engine (as discussed in earlier posts) has fatigued the steel fasteners causing the them to become brittle. If you heat carbon steel and quinch it, the steel increases in hardness. Granted, when you heat the engine to operating temp and run the machine through a water hole, the increase in hardness is very small. If you do this time and time again the hardness builds and could cause a failure. I am going to replace mine with cadmium plated, hydrogen embrittlement relieved, socket head cap screws. Just my thoughts about it.

Nice info Haldog77 . . . and it matches the treatment that myself and buddy give our machines. We ride a lot. And there are several long waterholes at the beginning and end of our rides. We ride a few minutes, go through water deep enough to drown these bolts, ride for a few hours and then go back through this water again after the engine is good and hot. (We've gotten good at replacing wheel bearings too, but that's a different story.) So, I know that these bolts have gone through several hundred cycles, maybe 1000's since we hit other holes while out riding. You might be on to something. . . however, does this part of the engine really get hot enough to cause this. Surely it wouldn't be any hotter than the oil would it? It's not near the exhaust. Just a thought.

you would think that all the engine bolts would need to be replaced since they go thru a heat cycle