P1000 P1000 broken engine mounting bolts

[RingMaster]

Wow, thanks for all the advice and info.

Are you guys saying that I might be able to use the welding of the nut trick without removing the whole darn engine? I might be able to do the back bolt, but the front one definitely looks impossible.

@joeymt33, I'm not going to Alabama until this fall when I do my treck to Talladega NASCAR Race. Can you install your mount without removing the engine? It appears to go up on the side of the engine where it seems impossible to access. Thanks for the advice to not use a bolt extractor. I'm guessing that's why you had to build a new bracket. Necessity is the mother of invention.

The stretching/fatigue thing seems to be what happened to mine. I don't think I did anything particular to have caused them to break other than normal use.

Thanks again!

 

[Admin]

 

[joeymt33]

@joeymt33 Just a WAG (I haven't looked at the mounts in question. Do you think loose bolts, perhaps due to stretching, could be part of the failure mode? This might allow the motor to put additional stress on the fasteners? Would checking the bolt torque occasionally be a good idea? Or, absent the your reinforcement doubler, replacing the bolts with higher strength ones?

If you get the chance, please post a better picture of what you did. Thanks!

I was hoping either Adam or Brad or Bomar would have a better picture. Maybe if the OP responds to me I’ll make another one to send to him and post a picture of that.

I’ll see if I can make a crude drawing of it quickly.

Stock bolts I constantly had problems with on all the a-arm mounting locations, differential mounting bolts, motor mount bolts and other locations. It could be that they stretched first and then allowed it to rock. But if you look at the way the motor would pivot off of the passenger side mount, which would put a lateral force on the two bolts on the driver side, then you can see that it would cause a rocking motion.

 

[joeymt33]

Wow, thanks for all the advice and info.

Are you guys saying that I might be able to use the welding of the nut trick without removing the whole darn engine? I might be able to do the back bolt, but the front one definitely looks impossible.

@joeymt33, I'm not going to Alabama until this fall when I do my treck to Talladega NASCAR Race. Can you install your mount without removing the engine? It appears to go up on the side of the engine where it seems impossible to access. Thanks for the advice to not use a bolt extractor. I'm guessing that's why you had to build a new bracket. Necessity is the mother of invention.

The stretching/fatigue thing seems to be what happened to mine. I don't think I did anything particular to have caused them to break other than normal use.

Thanks again!

Removal of the engine is definitely not needed. I didn’t even remove the plastic under the driver seat.

The front bolt is not bad, but you will probably need to go ahead and remove the engine mount from the frame and you can use a prybar or pipe or something to push the plastic out of the way to weld a nut onto the front bolt. Also, any skid plate or anything else needs to be removed from underneath. The access needs to be from underneath the vehicle and it also helps to have the driver side rear tire off. If you have access to a vehicle lift, this will be much easier.

The new mount can be installed without removing the engine. With all of the above things removed, you can tilt the bed up and move the coolant hose out of the way, and it can be easily installed. I actually built all of the mounts in place which included welding all of the pieces together, while bolted to the side of the engine.

Just let me know if you need any help. You can send me a private message if you wish.

 

[HondaTech]

On the Talons Honda changed the bolt to a longer one and added a spacer under the steel mount. I haven't paid enough attention to the Pioneer to see if they also did it there as well.

 

[RingMaster]

Thanks for all the help guys. It's going to be a while before I decide how/if I'm going to attack this. I feel naked without my machine in running condition.

@joeymt33 thanks for confirming that I don't HAVE to remove the entire engine. That gives me some confidence that I MAY able to accomplish this myself.

 

[P1K5Dave]

Wow, this is a possible failure point I was unaware of. My '18 with 14K miles is going to get an inspection.

I’ve had to fix a couple pioneers like this now and the best way I found is holding a nut against the engine case and filling the nut full of Weld so that it welds its self to the stud and then take it off with a socket or a wrench while it’s still hot.

After that, by some grade 12.9 socket head, studs and use those instead of the factory bolts. I can go down to the shop and check later but I’m pretty sure it’s metric 10 with a 1.25 thread pitch.

When you get a chance, please verify the bolt size (and length.) I'd like to get a set on order before I even look at it.

 

[Adam490]

I was hoping either Adam or Brad or Bomar would have a better picture. Maybe if the OP responds to me I’ll make another one to send to him and post a picture of that.

I’ll see if I can make a crude drawing of it quickly.

Stock bolts I constantly had problems with on all the a-arm mounting locations, differential mounting bolts, motor mount bolts and other locations. It could be that they stretched first and then allowed it to rock. But if you look at the way the motor would pivot off of the passenger side mount, which would put a lateral force on the two bolts on the driver side, then you can see that it would cause a rocking motion.

Didn't see you'd tagged me (have to use the @ and not the #). I can get some pictures of mine, I think they are in my build thread here too.

 

[Adam490]

Got it @joeymt33 ...



s*** wrong pic.... Here you go @RingMaster





Joey and @snuffnwhisky knocked that out in like 30 minutes. They are alright folks even if they are from AL!

 

[snuffnwhisky]

All of the Honda bolts are really soft. Mostly to help from stripping out aluminum threads. The motor mount bolts stretch over time and break. When they stretch, they are really hard to get out, if you can. If you use an easeout, make sure you drill all the way through the bolt with the largest bit you can. Penetrating oil and let it sit for a day. Nut welding is best if you can. We replace all critical bolts with grade 12.9 allens. Mcmastercarr has all the bolts.

 

[RingMaster]

Got it @joeymt33 ...

View attachment 395910

s*** wrong pic.... Here you go @RingMaster

View attachment 395912

View attachment 395911

Joey and @snuffnwhisky knocked that out in like 30 minutes. They are alright folks even if they are from AL!

I like the first pic. It looks like a LOT more fun that what I'm trying to accomplish.

And the new part looks like it certainly will get the job done. But the broken bolts still have to come out. I'm failing on that.

 

[RingMaster]

So, here is a picture of my baby on the operating room floor:

And here's a pic of the failed surgery:

The lighter color in the center of the bolts are actually the "easyout" that broke on BOTH of the bolts. Cheap crap. Anyone have any suggestions of where I can get a good quality/STRONG easyout?

I'm guess I'm going to have to re-drill and this time, now that I have read @snuffnwhisky comment, drill all the way through and re-soak with penetrating oil. But will that drain the oil? What's on the other side of the broken bolt?

Or I'm going to have to learn how to weld or find someone who can to do the nut trick for me.

 

[Adam490]

So, here is a picture of my baby on the operating room floor:

View attachment 395948

And here's a pic of the failed surgery:
View attachment 395949

The lighter color in the center of the bolts are actually the "easyout" that broke on BOTH of the bolts. Cheap crap. Anyone have any suggestions of where I can get a good quality/STRONG easyout?

I'm guess I'm going to have to re-drill and this time, now that I have read @snuffnwhisky comment, drill all the way through and re-soak with penetrating oil. But will that drain the oil? What's on the other side of the broken bolt?

Or I'm going to have to learn how to weld or find someone who can to do the nut trick for me.

Welding is easy. Being a good welder is not 😂.

You’ve got to have a buddy around that’s got a welder? Doesn’t even have to know how to use it, couple beers then hold a nut to it and fill the hole. I think you’re just going to get worse off with the EZ Outs honestly

 

[Jerryg]

If a welder is not an option, maybe you can try some strong epoxy.

 

[Smitty335]

So, here is a picture of my baby on the operating room floor:

View attachment 395948

And here's a pic of the failed surgery:
View attachment 395949

The lighter color in the center of the bolts are actually the "easyout" that broke on BOTH of the bolts. Cheap crap. Anyone have any suggestions of where I can get a good quality/STRONG easyout?

I'm guess I'm going to have to re-drill and this time, now that I have read @snuffnwhisky comment, drill all the way through and re-soak with penetrating oil. But will that drain the oil? What's on the other side of the broken bolt?

Or I'm going to have to learn how to weld or find someone who can to do the nut trick for me.

I would stop and take a trip to Alabama, most EZ outs are very hard and if you try to drill them out, the bit will just go sideways and into the aluminum case. That's just my experience. This ceramic coated rod does intrigue me.

 

[Adam490]

I would stop and take a trip to Alabama, most EZ outs are very hard and if you try to drill them out, the bit will just go sideways and into the aluminum case. That's just my experience. This ceramic coated rod does intrigue me.

I’d go to harbor freight, buy a welder, burn that nut on.

I bet @snuffnwhisky or @joeymt33 would give you their number and walk you through it. I’ve seen Snuff weld @Plumber32 rig back together on multiple occasions in a parking lot with the same $175 HF welder most of us have.

 

[joeymt33]

I’d go to harbor freight, buy a welder, burn that nut on.

I bet @snuffnwhisky or @joeymt33 would give you their number and walk you through it. I’ve seen Snuff weld @Plumber32 rig back together on multiple occasions in a parking lot with the same $175 HF welder most of us have.

Exactly what Adam said. Send me a private message if you want to and I’ll give you my phone number.

 

[Smitty335]

I’d go to harbor freight, buy a welder, burn that nut on.

I bet @snuffnwhisky or @joeymt33 would give you their number and walk you through it. I’ve seen Snuff weld @Plumber32 rig back together on multiple occasions in a parking lot with the same $175 HF welder most of us have.

Post # 9 tells the Ceramic electrode brand X-Tractolly welding electrode.

 

[Adam490]

Post # 9 tells the Ceramic electrode brand X-Tractolly welding electrode.

Put down the crack pipe, it’s early still

 

[Smitty335]

Put down the crack pipe, it’s early still

Hell I haven't even smoked pot in 25 years, drink my fair share of beer though. Did you open up the attachment, pretty interesting. I know spit about stick welding but I can get around with a wire feed. Do you not need a special rod to weld a steel bolt inside an aluminum casing? I don't know?

 

[Plumber32]

I’d go to harbor freight, buy a welder, burn that nut on.

I bet @snuffnwhisky or @joeymt33 would give you their number and walk you through it. I’ve seen Snuff weld @Plumber32 rig back together on multiple occasions in a parking lot with the same $175 HF welder most of us have.

This guy can fix anything. But only comes out at night. Some say if you Crack open an old-style he appears.