P1000 Pioneer 1000 regret

[Chris-Rog]

Yeah something like 95 replies in two days is pretty awesome, thanks to everyone. Well she started again today, we are on a roll! I don’t want to get ahead of myself yet cause the worst weather is tomorrow and next day but..... it really seems to start a lot faster since I put the 87 with ethanol in it. Even before when it was warm out ( mid 40’s) it took about 5 cranks before it would start. Even if I had it thoroughly warmed up, shut it down, wait ten minutes or whatever, it still seemed like a long start. That was with 91 octane ethanol free. Today it was like two cranks, faster than my truck. I think I think the 87 ethanol has played a role. I will update tomorrow. On a side note, the machine is pretty robust in my opinion. Pushes snow pretty darn good. Have yet to get stuck, in fact if it starts tomorrow, I’m gonna help a local guide with a Ranger get freed up at the boat launch. Not really fond of the gear selector though. Seems kinda clunky, reminds me of a gear selector on a 80’s craftsmen riding mower or something. Maybe it will loosen up in time? Maybe that’s a new thread.

 

[sharp]

Yeah something like 95 replies in two days is pretty awesome, thanks to everyone. Well she started again today, we are on a roll! I don’t want to get ahead of myself yet cause the worst weather is tomorrow and next day but..... it really seems to start a lot faster since I put the 87 with ethanol in it. Even before when it was warm out ( mid 40’s) it took about 5 cranks before it would start. Even if I had it thoroughly warmed up, shut it down, wait ten minutes or whatever, it still seemed like a long start. That was with 91 octane ethanol free. Today it was like two cranks, faster than my truck. I think I think the 87 ethanol has played a role. I will update tomorrow. On a side note, the machine is pretty robust in my opinion. Pushes snow pretty darn good. Have yet to get stuck, in fact if it starts tomorrow, I’m gonna help a local guide with a Ranger get freed up at the boat launch. Not really fond of the gear selector though. Seems kinda clunky, reminds me of a gear selector on a 80’s craftsmen riding mower or something. Maybe it will loosen up in time? Maybe that’s a new thread.

The hard shift and the loud "clunk" will pretty much go away after the first service.

 

[Vikes79]

Something to consider.

Specifically the silicone tranny and oil pan heaters.

Kat's

There are many types and sizes

 

[Jensenj71]

It seems like there are a few misunderstandings. Ethanol decreases cold weather performance for the same reason it increases octane rating. Ethanol is harder to ignite. It requires a hotter spark and if the spark is marginal the addition of ethanol makes things worse. Ethanol cools the air as it tries to evaporate and doesn't evaporate as readily as gasoline. I don't recommend filling any vehicle with Ethanol blend when the temperatures are headed for negative numbers. All in all, I don't suspect the octane rating makes much of a difference. The "low compression" explanation is complete bull.

Cold weather decreases the capability of the battery significantly. Good battery or marginal battery, cold temperatures make it worse. There is a good reason that the first cold snap corresponds with a rush in battery sales. Marginal batteries continued to start a rig until the temperature drops.

Cold weather increases the load on the starter during cranking. This requires more amps from the battery at a time when the battery is less capable.

Fuel injected engines don't appreciate low voltage during cranking. If the voltage supplied to the ECM and the injectors is too low the engine will crank and fail to start.

Simple Test: Connect a good car battery with a good set of jumper cables. This will keep the system voltage up for the ECM and injectors while cranking....9 times out of 10 the engine will fire up immediately. I am not suggesting that you flood the engine with fuel, foul the spark plugs and crank the starter until the battery is nearly dead and the starter is smoking before trying this. Connect the other battery before everything else goes to hell and chances are it will start immediately.

The factory battery just doesn't have much marginal capacity and it is easy to abuse the battery in a sxs which decreases the capacity. Any lead acid style battery will be permanently damaged if left partially discharged for a period of time. The lost capacity isn't noticeable until you need it. A crappy battery fully charged is still ....... a crappy battery, however it may work perfectly fine until you need the missing capacity.

 

[Mopower58]

Seems like I heard somewhere that an Odyssey battery doubles the cranking amps the first couple of seconds. The Odyssey I had in my Rhino lasted over 10 years.

 

[sharp]

Seems like I heard somewhere that an Odyssey battery doubles the cranking amps the first couple of seconds. The Odyssey I had in my Rhino lasted over 10 years.

The Odyssey has non recycled lead in it therefore it packs more of a punch on initial contact.

 

[Jensenj71]

My understanding is that the pure lead thin plates in an Odessy style AGM significantly lowers the internal resistance of the battery. This allows the battery to provide more amps without a large voltage drop. This also allows the battery to accept a charge at a much higher rate.

It is important to note that a new standard Honda AGM should also start the engine in cold weather. I don't believe Honda is producing a design that will not start in typical cold temperatures. On the other hand, the factory battery may need 80% or more of the original capacity to reliability start the engine in cold temperatures. It is pretty easy to knock 20% out of a battery by letting it sit partially discharged especially in warmer temperatures.

Ironically, warming the battery is a very viable solution. The warm battery will deliver significantly more cranking amps. You coud just pull the battery and store it in a warm location. I am not sure if battery warming pads are commercially available for atv and sxs size batteries.

 

[jwfirebird]

all he did was change the gas, the battery is likely fine. the ethanol doesn't make a difference either but in cold places they have winter additives in the gas at the pump no matter which grade you get. the articles say the vapor point needs to be much lower and the butane added in winter states is increased. from the factory and the pure gas has nothing else in it.

the only issue in the future may be if you use the winch for the plow it drains the battery so you will need to plug It in after, good charger like ctech or battery tender with atv settings. I got the ctech 4300 it does everything and has cold weather program for cars

 

[BeerMonkey]

It seems like there are a few misunderstandings. Ethanol decreases cold weather performance for the same reason it increases octane rating. Ethanol is harder to ignite. It requires a hotter spark and if the spark is marginal the addition of ethanol makes things worse. Ethanol cools the air as it tries to evaporate and doesn't evaporate as readily as gasoline. I don't recommend filling any vehicle with Ethanol blend when the temperatures are headed for negative numbers. All in all, I don't suspect the octane rating makes much of a difference. The "low compression" explanation is complete bull.

Cold weather decreases the capability of the battery significantly. Good battery or marginal battery, cold temperatures make it worse. There is a good reason that the first cold snap corresponds with a rush in battery sales. Marginal batteries continued to start a rig until the temperature drops.

Cold weather increases the load on the starter during cranking. This requires more amps from the battery at a time when the battery is less capable.

Fuel injected engines don't appreciate low voltage during cranking. If the voltage supplied to the ECM and the injectors is too low the engine will crank and fail to start.

Simple Test: Connect a good car battery with a good set of jumper cables. This will keep the system voltage up for the ECM and injectors while cranking....9 times out of 10 the engine will fire up immediately. I am not suggesting that you flood the engine with fuel, foul the spark plugs and crank the starter until the battery is nearly dead and the starter is smoking before trying this. Connect the other battery before everything else goes to hell and chances are it will start immediately.

The factory battery just doesn't have much marginal capacity and it is easy to abuse the battery in a sxs which decreases the capacity. Any lead acid style battery will be permanently damaged if left partially discharged for a period of time. The lost capacity isn't noticeable until you need it. A crappy battery fully charged is still ....... a crappy battery, however it may work perfectly fine until you need the missing capacity.

Agreed. i bet if you hooked to a running car you would get better results. the faster the starter spins the better the compression, the higher the voltage the better the atomization of the fuel in the chamber and the easier the spark. you take the electrical portion out of the equation and it shouldnt matter how cold it gets. not being a diesel internal chamber temps are negligible in relation to starting. if i lived up north in those temps id have a block heater and large CCA automotive battery in the bed wired up.

 

[OleRed]

Jumper packs-- A good one is around $1-200 but priceless for having around. I carry one everywhere I go. I use the 12v cig plug in for charging stuff and always have a hot spin for a starter. No dragging jumper cables and needing a second vehicle. Can't emphasized enough the peace of mind that comes with having a good one always within arms reach. I didn't want to chime in earlier on the ethanol stuff but will now, I don't put that crap in anything but cars that are stock from the factory. Boats, wheelers, small engines, etc etc all get no corn. They run much happier and for longer with less hard starting after a year or so when that ethanol seems to turn small ports in fuel systems to white blockage misery.

 

[jwfirebird]

only time ive had a problem with it on a quad was before I used stabil in the ones I wasent going to use for couple weeks and the carb got gummed up after that I used pump gas in neg weather drove it 4500 miles and never had another problem. that was the first prairie it had tiny needle jets. had 3 efi quads too still no problems

 

[OleRed]

Anything that you use regularly seems to not matter so much on fuel IMO... the seasonal stuff is where I seem to get burnt. I am a stabil fan and do fogging oil. Well... most of the time

 

[BeerMonkey]

Anything that you use regularly seems to not matter so much on fuel IMO... the seasonal stuff is where I seem to get burnt. I am a stabil fan and do fogging oil. Well... most of the time

Truth...if you are burning it you will never have a problem

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[Jensenj71]

The fuel could certainly be the issue, however I believe it is ~5 times more likely that the voltage supplied to the injectors and ECM while cranking is the main issue. It is easy to skip past the battery as the issue and spend a lot of time looking for another cause. I have personally glossed over the battery numerous times and wasted countless hours looking for another cause that just didn't exist. Step 1 for a crank, but fail to start in cold weather is always jump with another battery with good jumper cables. It is a quick and easy test that delivers an answer in less than 5mins.

 

[Chris-Rog]

She started this morning......barely. I think it was -16 actual temp. It would crank over and cough, spit,sputter and then shudder. Took me about 7 tries, the last try involved me ever so slightly pushing the pedal down a touch to kinda help it get going.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

 

[Chris-Rog]

I gotta ask... if we assume ( yes I know what that means) that the service guy was telling me the truth about getting mostly no start calls on the Honda compared to the Ranger, would that still be indicative of a battery? Are Ranger batteries any different? How does the starting fluid play into question here? I’m slightly sceptical about my issue being related to the battery because it really wasn’t brutal out at that point and then when I did get it started I had it on the tender for 18 hours (new and fresh battery) so.... the local guide who abandoned his Ranger at the launch (stuck on a snow drift) started right up today no problem. He mentioned a two contact solenoid that sticks when it’s really cold out, he unplugs it quick, warms it up and plugs it back in and he says it always starts no problem. Any thoughts?

 

[Chris-Rog]

Meant to say it didn’t start after 18 hours on batter tender.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Honda - Yuasa GYZ16H - 240 CCA
Polaris - 4014132-P - 575 CCA