Public land and access

[rmk700]

From what I've been reading, it's the R reps in Utah that are pushing for land transfers the hardest (yes other states are doing it as well) They placed several provisions and loopholes in the land use plan they pushed which allowed for much more mineral extraction, and backed heavily by big oil lobbyists. No-one can tell me that major corporations being involved in the acquisition of land is for the greater good of the American populous or for responsible management of nature and the environment.

I can't say I've ever had issue with access to federal lands. It's typically been the state land that can't afford to do road maintenance to keep places open. There were roads in on the Olympic Peninsula that were closed for damn near all 5 years I lived in Port Angeles, WA. Yes I could access it, but it added dozens of miles to get to a trailhead. And half the time the trails were in a very poor state. When the feds grant leases, it's seems strictly regulated and access isn't restricted. Yes, the feds could use improvement in their management, but I have very little faith the state can do any better, or that they would put in provisions preventing sale to private entities.

Utah is graced with lots of wide open space. I've lived in a place that is 99% privatized due to greed by politicians in the name of shortsighted money making. The damage is irreversible, access completely prohibited or price gouged and not a place I ever want to live again. I think it takes living in both environments to really appreciate how important keeping access open is.

I'll admit, the states managing the federal lands could be dangerous, but something needs to be done how they continue turning the land into monuments and limiting all kinds of access to the public that has been used for resources for ever. These millions of incoming tourists are just as likely (or more likely) to damage the land more than if it was left as open public land.

 

[Admin]

 

[Montecresto]

Nothing will damage the "open public land" like logging, mining and gas and oil exploitation.

 

[rmk700]

Nothing will damage the "open public land" like logging, mining and gas and oil exploitation.

You go first.....No more wood or gas for you.

You have forest fires, and pine beetles doing huge damage to .....yes....our resources' but I'm guessing you'll put that blame on us humans for cuasing the climate change that's really been naturally changing for millions of years.

 

[Montecresto]

I've been lobbying for renewables forever, live in a solar house. Humans are contributing to climate change despite natural occurrences.

 

[JTW]

I've been lobbying for renewables forever, live in a solar house. Humans are contributing to climate change despite natural occurrences.

Shout it from your safe space, Bernie lover!

 

[Jediwrathchild]

You go first.....No more wood or gas for you.

You have forest fires, and pine beetles doing huge damage to .....yes....our resources' but I'm guessing you'll put that blame on us humans for cuasing the climate change that's really been naturally changing for millions of years.

This is getting into stickier and more polarizing territory. Good forest management reduces forest fires. At the same time if we let forest fires naturally occur, there would be less fires and more fire resistant forests. I'm not versed enough in the subject to make those decisions.

On to climate change. Regardless of what some outliers spread as fact, humans are contributing. Come on up to AK, and talk to people on the north slope and see what they think. The poles are experiencing it, it is visible and quantifiable. I'd check the funding sources of the climate change deniers for yourself And see who stands to benefit. Check who stands to benefit and is funding those pushing for the sale of federal lands, and you'll see its the same group of people.

 

[Jediwrathchild]

But in the end, I don't think it really matters whether humans are contributing or not. To not attempt to explore clean alternatives that protect water, land and air is really irresponsible in my opinion.

 

[Montecresto]

Shout it from your safe space, Bernie lover!

Good contribution.

 

[Montecresto]

But in the end, I don't think it really matters whether humans are contributing or not. To not attempt to explore clean alternatives that protect water, land and air is really irresponsible in my opinion.

Point!

 

[rmk700]

But in the end, I don't think it really matters whether humans are contributing or not. To not attempt to explore clean alternatives that protect water, land and air is really irresponsible in my opinion.

Does this mean the sky is the limit on cost to do such a thing?

 

[Montecresto]

Public lands need your help.

 

[Jediwrathchild]

Does this mean the sky is the limit on cost to do such a thing?

Absolutely not. But to just write it off as lefty conspiracy isn't right either. As with a lot of things in our country these days, the middle ground is being lost. We're being told all the time we're either with or against a certain ideal. It's pretty disappointing.
There is also significant national security concerns associated with retreating ice and freshly viable shipping lanes. Not a whole
Lot of attention being shined on that.

 

[Montecresto]

Odd to find so many users of the outdoors so reticent to protecting them............shrug.

 

[JTW]

Good contribution.

Just when I think you're staring to understand my humor and get along.. BAMMM!! It's back to asshat!

 

[Montecresto]

Just when I think you're staring to understand my humor and get along.. BAMMM!! It's back to asshat!

Another good contribution. Now back to the topic. Let's participate in the preservation of our public lands.

 

[JTW]

But in the end, I don't think it really matters whether humans are contributing or not. To not attempt to explore clean alternatives that protect water, land and air is really irresponsible in my opinion.

That, I don't disagree with.. but we have to use common sense moving forward. What good are renewable resources if people can't afford them? Those that think the green movement isn't a political and money motivated shift are short sighted. I personally don't fully buy into the climate change narrative as it's being told, but I also belive in conservation and taking care of what we have. You're right though.. the issue is there is no middle ground. That's a convo all in itself.

 

[rmk700]

Odd to find so many users of the outdoors so reticent to protect them............shrug.

You go first, protect the public land by staying completely off it.

I think we all want to protect our land but on the other hand we want to use and enjoy our land as well. Some think the fedural government managing it is the way to go. I think the Feds have no clue. Kind of like the mess they created with the wild horse problem out west. Wild Horses and Burros on Public Rangelands Now 2.5 Times Greater than 1971 when Protection Law Was Passed
I'd rather take my chances with states managing with the stipulation that states CANNOT SELL THE LAND.

 

[Jediwrathchild]

That, I don't disagree with.. but we have to use common sense moving forward. What good are renewable resources if people can't afford them? Those that think the green movement isn't a political and money motivated shift are short sighted. I personally don't fully buy into the climate change narrative as it's being told, but I also belive in conservation and taking care of what we have. You're right though.. the issue is there is no middle ground. That's a convo all in itself.

I agree the polarization of these issues is a whole other can of worms. As with all things, R&D and proliferation of a product drives competition up and prices down. Theres been concerted effort to shut down renewables for decades. 'Who framed Roger Rabbit' is about Standard Oil, GM and Firestone buying up the trollies in an attempt to monopolize transportation. GE was also linked to purchasing up solar rights and locking it away. My Dad was a plumbing contractor for a long time that specialized in solar, ground source and radiant. When he first started it was ultra expensive, but prices were driven down as more people jumped on board. This was in the PNW though where the populous is very receptive to such things.

The green movement is absolutely money driven, but theres ppl that want to exert positive change as well. From what I see, more ppl in the 'Climate Change is real' camp are trying to ensure future generations have clean air and water and theres no beachfront property in Kansas. As opposed to, well it's happening anyway lets maintain the status quo because its hard. We put a man on the moon, I think we can tackle this also.

I don't know what the answers are, but so many things are intrinsically tied. Public land in the abstract is tied to climate change. I like my public lands, clean air and water. I don't like corporatist greed, dirty water and declining animal populations.

I was given some Xmas money to fund new hunting gear. I turned around and sent that money to land use advocacy groups this weekend and wrote my senators. I figure what good is shiny new hunting gear if I can't use it anywhere.

 

[Montecresto]

I agree the polarization of these issues is a whole other can of worms. As with all things, R&D and proliferation of a product drives competition up and prices down. Theres been concerted effort to shut down renewables for decades. 'Who framed Roger Rabbit' is about Standard Oil, GM and Firestone buying up the trollies in an attempt to monopolize transportation. GE was also linked to purchasing up solar rights and locking it away. My Dad was a plumbing contractor for a long time that specialized in solar, ground source and radiant. When he first started it was ultra expensive, but prices were driven down as more people jumped on board. This was in the PNW though where the populous is very receptive to such things.

The green movement is absolutely money driven, but theres ppl that want to exert positive change as well. From what I see, more ppl in the 'Climate Change is real' camp are trying to ensure future generations have clean air and water and theres no beachfront property in Kansas. As opposed to, well it's happening anyway lets maintain the status quo because its hard. We put a man on the moon, I think we can tackle this also.

I don't know what the answers are, but so many things are intrinsically tied. Public land in the abstract is tied to climate change. I like my public lands, clean air and water. I don't like corporatist greed, dirty water and declining animal populations.

I was given some Xmas money to fund new hunting gear. I turned around and sent that money to land use advocacy groups this weekend and wrote my senators. I figure what good is shiny new hunting gear if I can't use it anywhere.

I believe the answer is to do what we can on the individual level. And that's what I do to advance both the preservation of our public spaces and our environment. Trump just appointed a guy who made a career out of suing the EPA to run the EPA Such a set back is discouraging but dispair is not an option.

 

[Jediwrathchild]

You go first, protect the public land by staying completely off it.

I think we all want to protect our land but on the other hand we want to use and enjoy our land as well. Some think the fedural government managing it is the way to go. I think the Feds have no clue. Kind of like the mess they created with the wild horse problem out west. Wild Horses and Burros on Public Rangelands Now 2.5 Times Greater than 1971 when Protection Law Was Passed
I'd rather take my chances with states managing with the stipulation that states CANNOT SELL THE LAND.

I watched a really interesting doc on netflix a few months ago about this very thing. I had no idea until recently there was such a wild horse population issue. Tree huggers want them left alone, which is not the answer either. They're way over breeding and basically decimating their own habitat then starving. Perfect example of where feds are failing at management. I do think state Fish and Game depts could better manage these problems, the land itself is better protected by the feds though (in my opinion)