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Talon Red Talon R Ordered on Saturday

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ohanacreek

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They said YXZ did 82 on that dyno and i think the RZR was at 79
Thanks. So the Talon is putting more power to the ground vs the emissions HP rating...

The more I think about it, I wish they'd throw a General and a Pioneer 1000 on there too. Probably wouldn't be a direct DCT comparison since the Talon seems to shift MUCH faster.
 

GPR1500SC

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They said YXZ did 82 on that dyno and i think the RZR was at 79

Talon 85 HP to the ground
YXZ 82
RZR 79?

The whole DCT or Dual Clutch Transmission is a little over hyped at its core it is a standard transmission that's been around since the beginning of time and no different than the YXZ and the only efficiency difference is in gearing and teeth mesh, in fact the mechanical clutch that does not use energy (oil pressure) to keep it engaged would be a little more efficient on a dyno.

Now to high light the superiority of the DCT it has two clutches that are engaged and disengaged with oil pressure.
It can engage one gear as it disengages the other make a smooth quick shift.
so under acceleration there is none of the lag you get from a single clutch disengaging and shifting then reengaging and is much better then YXZ's system, the clutch does not make hp so where is it coming from?
 

CumminsPusher

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Talon 85 HP to the ground
YXZ 82
RZR 79?

The whole DCT or Dual Clutch Transmission is a little over hyped at its core it is a standard transmission that's been around since the beginning of time and no different than the YXZ and the only efficiency difference is in gearing and teeth mesh, in fact the mechanical clutch that does not use energy (oil pressure) to keep it engaged would be a little more efficient on a dyno.

Now to high light the superiority of the DCT it has two clutches that are engaged and disengaged with oil pressure.
It can engage one gear as it disengages the other make a smooth quick shift.
so under acceleration there is none of the lag you get from a single clutch disengaging and shifting then reengaging and is much better then YXZ's system, the clutch does not make hp so where is it coming from?
Over 85 and that’s in 4wd. Now that’s wheels off, and in the air it’s only open diff so that doesn’t take a ton but easily a couple. So probably closer to 88. That’s a good number...
 
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ohanacreek

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Talon 85 HP to the ground
YXZ 82
RZR 79?

The whole DCT or Dual Clutch Transmission is a little over hyped at its core it is a standard transmission that's been around since the beginning of time and no different than the YXZ and the only efficiency difference is in gearing and teeth mesh, in fact the mechanical clutch that does not use energy (oil pressure) to keep it engaged would be a little more efficient on a dyno.

Now to high light the superiority of the DCT it has two clutches that are engaged and disengaged with oil pressure.
It can engage one gear as it disengages the other make a smooth quick shift.
so under acceleration there is none of the lag you get from a single clutch disengaging and shifting then reengaging and is much better then YXZ's system, the clutch does not make hp so where is it coming from?
I would agree and say on paper the YXZ and Talon are fairly evenly matched, trans and HP wise.

Riding the same trails as @snuffnwhisky in his YXZ I don't think the YXZ is a good rock crawler even compared with the Pioneer 1000, even a YXZ with the gear reductions (plural) only gets it back to where a Pioneer 1000 is without gear reduction on 30's. I don't think it has the same low end grunt the Honda motor does.

Different machines with a different original design, maybe the stock Talon has a SLIGHTLY lower overall gearing than the stock YXZ? Maybe the DCT allows a smoother shift and conserves just that little bit of efficiency? Maybe that could explain a slight difference comparing the YXZ vs Talon???

I know back around 2005ish they changed the way standardized Dyno testing was to be done and some manufactures had slightly higher or lower hp numbers for the same engine. I think the YXZ and Talon are so dang close theres no difference.

The Popo is the outlier and with it being so much lower vs the advertised HP, it is probably them fudging the HP numbers the same way they include tire compression in their suspension travel numbers....Popo could be using a thinner oil, on a cold dry day, with a cool motor.

Kind of like Ford did with their max payload a few years ago by using the most stripped down version of the vehicle available for MAX numbers for adverts.

Could Honda be doing the opposite and measuring the HP with a thicker oil, at full operating temp, on a hot humid day in a warm lab? Sure you can always fudge your numbers...but with them being so close to the YXZ, I would look at popo as the fudger.

OR Alba could have tested on different types of days and the difference comes in there ...

Its all close and to argue over a couple of HP on paper is silly, I'm really glad they can get the power down and look like they have good low end torque delivery for crawling with a slightly taller tire. My worry was when they took the 1000 platform and got more HP out of it torque wouldn't be as good.
 

carlsonjmc

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One thing that I can think of is that with the dual clutch setup you may only have half the gears spinning under the engines power at one time. Meaning half the parasitic load of the YXZ. I haven’t confirmed this but I would think that if they went through the trouble to build a DCT that this was considered.
 
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dnjones161

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Several people have alluded to this but as far as straight line times vs comparable HP machines, if the 50% faster shift is legit, that has to make a significant difference in drag times.

I have found on bikes that I've owned throughout the years that WHERE you make your power is maybe more important than how much you make- of course a limit to that exists.

If you've ever test-driven and f150 with a 5.0 and then driven one with a 3.5 turbo u get it. The numbers aren't all that different, but the 3.5 makes all of its power much lower than the RPM range. Makes it feel completely different.
 

HondaTech

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Talon 85 HP to the ground
YXZ 82
RZR 79?

The whole DCT or Dual Clutch Transmission is a little over hyped at its core it is a standard transmission that's been around since the beginning of time and no different than the YXZ and the only efficiency difference is in gearing and teeth mesh, in fact the mechanical clutch that does not use energy (oil pressure) to keep it engaged would be a little more efficient on a dyno.

Now to high light the superiority of the DCT it has two clutches that are engaged and disengaged with oil pressure.
It can engage one gear as it disengages the other make a smooth quick shift.
so under acceleration there is none of the lag you get from a single clutch disengaging and shifting then reengaging and is much better then YXZ's system, the clutch does not make hp so where is it coming from?
The YXZ would be much better machine if Yamaha would build a engine suited for using a manual clutch.

Snowmobile engines are just like any other belted machine, built for higher rpm due to clutch engagement not allowing any power to the ground below 4 - 5k.

Same reason they had clutch issues out of the gate, the engine just wasnt happy below 4k. It needed revved to the moon and dumped to climb hills and crawling around wasnt possible.

The DCT is a constant mesh trans but with 1 main shaft inside the other. The Talon will always shift faster than the YXZ because the next gear is always preloaded in a half-neutral for quicker shifts.
 

Plumber32

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The torque they put in the talon is probably outshining the h.p. numbers. Torque gets you to 100 mph. H.p. takes over after that.
 
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