Talon Reverse issue. Not wanting to engage

[iloehr99]

First note: I love my Talon R! I have had a Pinioneer 500 and still have a 1000-5 Deluxe. In no way am I doubting the quality or performance of the Talon. Every machine is going to have an issue. To many people hear of this or that problem and assume the thing is junk when that's not the case.

Now to the problem I got!

Ever since I got the Talon R back in April, it would sometimes pop after I started moving in reverse. Sometimes it sounded terrible. Everything I read from other people having the same issue said it went away over time. I am at 550 miles now and it only got worse. It slowly progressed from popping after moving to not wanting to engage at all. I have adjusted the shift linkage per the service manual instructions and it does not help at all. I've even adjusted way out in both directions and nothing changed. I am about to take it to the dealer, just wanted to see if there were any suggestions here. I don't want to have it sitting in the shop during perfect riding weather but it has gotten to bad.

Also, I did the standard service change just over a 100 miles and did not see anything out of the ordinary in the oil.

I attached a link to a youtube video of it.

 

[mikegriffin84]

wow sounds like the clutches are still engaged some which is probably putting wear and tear on your clutches when you are just sitting there idling.

 

[Hondasxs]

wow sounds like the clutches are still engaged some which is probably putting wear and tear on your clutches when you are just sitting there idling.

Not the clutches.
It's the gear dogs in the sub transmission.
There has been several reports of bent shift forks or a shift cables that went un-adjusted and this is the final result.

Cable adjustment will not help now. Subtrans rebuild is in order.

I know locally. Honda has replaced at least 1 unit under warranty.

Advice for everyone. If it happens once be quick to stop it and be sharp with gear changes. Make sure you are at a stop and do NOT let it grind. All your doing is rounding off the gear dogs to a point it want even stay meshed together. If you catch it early, cable adjustment can save it. Once its grinded a few times it's over.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[iloehr99]

Th

Not the clutches.
It's the gear dogs in the sub transmission.
There has been several reports of bent shift forks or a shift cables that went un-adjusted and this is the final result.

Cable adjustment will not help now. Subtrans rebuild is in order.

I know locally. Honda has replaced at least 1 unit under warranty.

Advice for everyone. If it happens once be quick to stop it and be sharp with gear changes. Make sure you are at a stop and do NOT let it grind. All your doing is rounding off the gear dogs to a point it want even stay meshed together. If you catch it early, cable adjustment can save it. Once its grinded a few times it's over.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

That is pretty much what I was suspecting
I'll get ahold of my local dealer and see what I can get going.

Thanks for the response!

 

[JimmyA]

Th


That is pretty much what I was suspecting
I'll get ahold of my local dealer and see what I can get going.

Thanks for the response!

Warranty should take care of it, at least you still have backup at home!

 

[HondaTech]

Not to hijack a thread but I see your in Southern Indiana, if your dealer wants to be difficult hop on and see us in Cincinnati. We'll be glad to try and pull for you and get Honda to fix the issues under warranty.

 

[hondabob]

Changing the reverse gears is a big job on the Talon. Shop manual says to remove the engine. It may be possible to disconnect everything on the engine and lift it up a little to remove the drive shafts and sub trans. With the engine at idle its important to shift into gear quickly and it will go into gear better if you take your foot off the brake. Belt drive is the same way. Shift quickly and with your foot off the brake.

 

[iloehr99]

Not to hijack a thread but I see your in Southern Indiana, if your dealer wants to be difficult hop on and see us in Cincinnati. We'll be glad to try and pull for you and get Honda to fix the issues under warranty.

Yea, my local dealer isn't happy with me. I bought my first two from him but the Talon was more of an impulse by when I got it in April and Abernathys was the only ones that had a green one in stock. I do understand why I would get put to the back of the line.

I've got a trip to brimstone the last weekend of October. That's not even four weeks away now. Abernathys is about 40 min closer than Cincinatti. Unless you were 100% sure it would be done before the 22nd of October, I will probably just to the repair myself. I work at a drivetrain shop, so the job wouldn't be bad as long as I can get the sub tranny out without pulling the engine.

 

[HondaTech]

We'd most definitely get a chance to look at it before then, but I couldn't guarantee it would be back together and in your hands by then.

Wish you luck with the repair!!

 

[hondabob]

Have your dealer print out section 12 sub trans and section 16 engine removal. After doing a bit of reading you may want an experienced tech do the repair. I would expect HondaTech has repaired a few Pioneer 1000 sub trans. The parts are about $150 the labor is huge especially doing the first one. I recommend changing the shift fork too. The Pioneer shop manual has an error and says the trans should be assembled in park instead of neutral which is correct. The Talon shop manual is correct and says neutral.

 

[subterranean]

Could have something to do with that "modified" shift gate... Shifting directly from H to R will break stuff. Those tabs on the shift gate are there for a reason...

 

[iloehr99]

We'd most definitely get a chance to look at it before then, but I couldn't guarantee it would be back together and in your hands by then.

Wish you luck with the repair!!

I ended up taking it in to my local dealer on November 19th. I just got the call back from them and they said Honda said they would not cover it. The Honda sales rep was there the day I dropped it off and they said the rep saw the tabs gone on the shift gate and that's why it was denied.

Not sure what your thoughts on this are? I haven't gone to pick it up yet. I told them I would take care of it myself due to the fact that they said it was a 23 hour job and there's no way i'm paying that much labor.

Does Honda send them paper work documenting it? I would like to explain to them that it was starting to do the grind before I cut the tabs off.

 

[hondabob]

I just rebuilt my 2018 Pioneer 1000. I abused it big time pulling my buddy out of the snow. After I broke low range we dug his out and I pulled him out in high range. You may be able to disconnect everything and lift the engine up a few inches and to remove the drive shafts then the sub trans. You will want to have shop towels on the work bench and a magnet. There is 81 or so balls and one needle bearing has one roller missing to allow more oil in. I replaced high and low plus both shift forks. It wouldn't hurt to call customer relations, they might cover the parts. All the manufacturers monitor the forums. A Can Am engineer got on their forum to give advice to their new Turbo customers a few years ago. Oh, its a PITA to line up the Cush Drive donut between the engine and sub trans. It may be easier to put it on the sub trans shaft first. God luck.

 

[Ddoggy]

Th


That is pretty much what I was suspecting
I'll get ahold of my local dealer and see what I can get going.

Thanks for the response!

Yup....thankful for the time put into this site...this is my situation exactly...like180 miles...third time I felt the “non” engagement..tbh...it’s kinda scary when you can’t instantly say...”ah frg it’s the Belt”...she’s trailord up and at the dealer Friday...

 

[Jefferson87]

I think I'm in the same boat, except for low.

The 3 trip out I was in the snow, at night, at night, and was doing a lot of forward to reverse. I believe the cable was not adjusted correctly from the factory, as I only had about 12 hours on the machine. A few times I pit in low and it ground a bit. The dealer adjusted it after that during the 20 hr service. The next trip out it popped out of low a few times and made a terrible noise.

What pisses me off is that this is a problem with the shift gate, in my opinion, it needs to be further back, and smaller for low. You shouldn't have to sit there and wiggle the shifter and make sure the dash says L, if the shifter is in the gate, it should be in low, period. Nothing I have ever driven is that way, do you put your truck into D and then sit there for a few seconds staring at the dash and wiggling the shifter? It's also sad how quickly it got messed up. All the suzukis and Toyota's I've had were abused, missed shifts, shifting from low to high range without stopping, ect. And never had an issue like this, with 100s of thousands of miles on them. I get that the grinding is bad, but 3-4 times shouldn't cause that much damage in my opinion.

I bought this sxs over the competition for the transmission, and I'm not even to 200 miles and I've missed 3-4 riding trips while my buddies in their rzr's are having a blast.

I really hope that my dealer gets it fixed and it was just a fluke. I don't even want to think about what I'll do if they say it's not under warranty.

 

[Ddoggy]

I think I'm in the same boat, except for low.

The 3 trip out I was in the snow, at night, at night, and was doing a lot of forward to reverse. I believe the cable was not adjusted correctly from the factory, as I only had about 12 hours on the machine. A few times I pit in low and it ground a bit. The dealer adjusted it after that during the 20 hr service. The next trip out it popped out of low a few times and made a terrible noise.

What pisses me off is that this is a problem with the shift gate, in my opinion, it needs to be further back, and smaller for low. You shouldn't have to sit there and wiggle the shifter and make sure the dash says L, if the shifter is in the gate, it should be in low, period. Nothing I have ever driven is that way, do you put your truck into D and then sit there for a few seconds staring at the dash and wiggling the shifter? It's also sad how quickly it got messed up. All the suzukis and Toyota's I've had were abused, missed shifts, shifting from low to high range without stopping, ect. And never had an issue like this, with 100s of thousands of miles on them. I get that the grinding is bad, but 3-4 times shouldn't cause that much damage in my opinion.

I bought this sxs over the competition for the transmission, and I'm not even to 200 miles and I've missed 3-4 riding trips while my buddies in their rzr's are having a blast.

I really hope that my dealer gets it fixed and it was just a fluke. I don't even want to think about what I'll do if they say it's not under warranty.

Getting the case going from Factory....dude I’m old...I waited and bought Honda because I don’t want to “tinker” and been burned to many times being nice and “waiting to see how things worked out”. Keep me posted how your situation works out and I will try todo the same.

I think I'm in the same boat, except for low.

The 3 trip out I was in the snow, at night, at night, and was doing a lot of forward to reverse. I believe the cable was not adjusted correctly from the factory, as I only had about 12 hours on the machine. A few times I pit in low and it ground a bit. The dealer adjusted it after that during the 20 hr service. The next trip out it popped out of low a few times and made a terrible noise.

What pisses me off is that this is a problem with the shift gate, in my opinion, it needs to be further back, and smaller for low. You shouldn't have to sit there and wiggle the shifter and make sure the dash says L, if the shifter is in the gate, it should be in low, period. Nothing I have ever driven is that way, do you put your truck into D and then sit there for a few seconds staring at the dash and wiggling the shifter? It's also sad how quickly it got messed up. All the suzukis and Toyota's I've had were abused, missed shifts, shifting from low to high range without stopping, ect. And never had an issue like this, with 100s of thousands of miles on them. I get that the grinding is bad, but 3-4 times shouldn't cause that much damage in my opinion.

I bought this sxs over the competition for the transmission, and I'm not even to 200 miles and I've missed 3-4 riding trips while my buddies in their rzr's are having a blast.

I really hope that my dealer gets it fixed and it was just a fluke. I don't even want to think about what I'll do if they say it's not under warranty.

I just started a case # with the Factory R&D...Dealers will only do so much..understandable..yet..at less than 180 miles...guess what
I am old and waited on Honda SxS so I wouldn’t have to “Tinker”...and will never get Burned by a date or time frame again. They will walk the walk..or have it on the door step. Hopefully they do as Honda has done and Grow and keep its base...I’ll update either way on my experience

 

[hondabob]

I just looked at the video again and it may be the cable is not adjusted properly. Install a new shift gate and make sure the cable is adjusted in the neutral gate or compare the neutral position with another Talon. My dealer replaced the reverse gear in a Pioneer 1000. The owner shifted into reverse at a above idle rpm and rounded out the gear engagement dogs, it would jump out of gear. I would like a larger shift cable with less flex. Just changed the oil, my next oil change will be at 10,000 miles. I'm going to sell mine at 20,000 and buy the Live Valve late this year. Hope you guys get fixed soon and let us know. I think the Honda service rep will help the dealer with the repair. The sub trans is close to the same as a belt drive sub trans except they also have the final drive gears.

 

[Ddoggy]

Small adjustments to the cable and she seems to work..”ok”.. still isn’t sitting right as I can feel forward momentum in Neutral at times...no longer search in Low Tho..not sure what to think tbh

 

[spentcoins]

Small adjustments to the cable and she seems to work..”ok”.. still isn’t sitting right as I can feel forward momentum in Neutral at times...no longer search in Low Tho..not sure what to think tbh

Mine also had the don't know spongy feeling and after jumping out of gear a few times it was toast. Dealer rebuilt the sub and now it feels much better and I know its in gear when I shift it to low or any other.

 

[Smitty335]

Sounds like the P1 all over again.