C
Hey, same issue with me. I can't see anything visitations wrong. Can you tell me which fork and gears you replaced? Could you actually see they were damaged?
Thanks
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B
When I took mine in for the parking pawl spacer problem, I was told they were able to remove the sub transmission without removing the engine.
(Mine was OK)
Bob K
I
I meant to make a follow up post but forgot. I got the sub tranny pulled last spring and got it all fixed up. Before I took it to the dealer, I had it out the weekend before and hit a tree, which exploded my steering rack. It didn't bend the tie rod though which sucks because that's what's supposed to happen. Of course, Honda wouldn't warranty that which I understand. It was driver error, and I believe it didn't bend the tie rod because the way the tree hit the tire it caused the tie rod to pull away from the steering rack, not push it into it which would allow it to bend. Either way not the point of this post.
I got all the parts from Honda. I don't remember the brake down of what all was what, but it was like $730 for the tranny parts and steering rack.
I did not have to pull the engine. It only took me like 4 hours to get down to the last item to remove which was the front drive shaft. I underestimated the difficulty to get that out. Thinking I was smarter than the service manual, I spent about 6 more hours trying to get that out doing it my way. Just follow the service manual and pull the front diff out. It still would have taken a few hours but at least they would have been less frustrating. And I found out I had to pull it anyway to change the steering rack.
Once the driveshaft was out, the sub tranny un-bolted and was sliding out Buttt.... the two studs stick out enough that the sub tranny cannot clear over the middle frame bar that's in front of it. There wasn't enough room on the stud to double nut it, so I had to use small vice grips to put in the space between the sub-tranny and tranny, and un-screw both studs that way. It felt like it took forever. Only could get like a quarter turn in each time.
After all that it slid right off.
Got the sub tranny apart and you can see the dogs were worn pretty good, but not as bad as I was suspecting.
One thing I was not expecting, was the shifter part was cracked in two. I have pictures of it. I am thinking that may have been why it was not fully engaging in reverse. The way its setup in there and where it was cracked, when it was pushing for reverse, the crack would open up. Its kinda hard to explain.
Either way I got it all fixed up, back together, and she's back out running like a champ.
I got all the parts from Honda. I don't remember the brake down of what all was what, but it was like $730 for the tranny parts and steering rack.
I did not have to pull the engine. It only took me like 4 hours to get down to the last item to remove which was the front drive shaft. I underestimated the difficulty to get that out. Thinking I was smarter than the service manual, I spent about 6 more hours trying to get that out doing it my way. Just follow the service manual and pull the front diff out. It still would have taken a few hours but at least they would have been less frustrating. And I found out I had to pull it anyway to change the steering rack.
Once the driveshaft was out, the sub tranny un-bolted and was sliding out Buttt.... the two studs stick out enough that the sub tranny cannot clear over the middle frame bar that's in front of it. There wasn't enough room on the stud to double nut it, so I had to use small vice grips to put in the space between the sub-tranny and tranny, and un-screw both studs that way. It felt like it took forever. Only could get like a quarter turn in each time.
After all that it slid right off.
Got the sub tranny apart and you can see the dogs were worn pretty good, but not as bad as I was suspecting.
One thing I was not expecting, was the shifter part was cracked in two. I have pictures of it. I am thinking that may have been why it was not fully engaging in reverse. The way its setup in there and where it was cracked, when it was pushing for reverse, the crack would open up. Its kinda hard to explain.
Either way I got it all fixed up, back together, and she's back out running like a champ.
CID
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Thanks for the follow up and great series of photos. 👍 👍 👍
C
I studied a bit longer and found the issue. Gear dogs were chipped on the edges like yours. I did follow the manual and had my sub trans out and pulled apart in less than 2 hours. That was the first time I've ever followed a Manuel's every step and it worked flawlessly. I only had to order $150 worth of parts and hope to have it back together by Tuesday. Thanks for the thread and info.
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toddvdh
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Lifetime Member
I guess it’s time to resurrect this thread. 2019 talon x with 1800 miles. My reverse has been slipping/clicking every once in a while for the past 200 miles. This weekend in the snow when I was backing up, it slipped 3 times in a row. So I tried to be gentle because it didn’t sound good.
Well, next thing I know it started grinding like crazy and not moving in reverse. I winched out forward and drove back to the garage. The oil is sparkly. Low has never made any weird noises and has engaged correctly.
To make a short post long, do the upgrade gears on the 2022 work in the 2019? Are the parts available yet? I thought I saw they were on this site somewhere but can’t find it.
I’m going to swing by my local dealer tomorrow and check out their schedule. I don’t really want to do this repair myself, but I’m not scared to if the price or timeframe is ridiculous from the dealer.
Well, next thing I know it started grinding like crazy and not moving in reverse. I winched out forward and drove back to the garage. The oil is sparkly. Low has never made any weird noises and has engaged correctly.
To make a short post long, do the upgrade gears on the 2022 work in the 2019? Are the parts available yet? I thought I saw they were on this site somewhere but can’t find it.
I’m going to swing by my local dealer tomorrow and check out their schedule. I don’t really want to do this repair myself, but I’m not scared to if the price or timeframe is ridiculous from the dealer.
H
HondaTech
Guest
The gears werent the problem, the new shift star and shaft seem to be the fix for reverse and low issues.
They are available to order, we atleast 2 of each. Fixing to do sub trans #4 in the coming week.
CID
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
This might help. Dave kept up with the thread and added the new part numbers in the later pages. It's for a Pioneer but I'm pretty sure it pertains to the Talon also.
P1000 - Sub-Transmission Service
Thought I would add here that Honda has redesigned a few subtrans parts for the Pioneer and @HondaTech says: I wouldn't put any sub trans together without these new parts. Shaft 24210-HL4-010 Star 24331-HL4-010 You can read more about these updated parts here...
hondasxs.com
Sheetmetalfab
Liberal kryptonite. truth and logic….
Lifetime Member
I would check with Adam Brown on Facebook. He rebuilds these and does it for a good price too. His turn around is really good too. I have heard nothing but good about him on Facebook.
toddvdh
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Lifetime Member
toddvdh
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
I’ll check him out. I’m going to talk to my local dealer first, just in case I can pull a rabbit out of a hat and they will warranty or help with the pricing.
Long shot since I bought it used from them, but it’s on my way home.
edit: there are a lot of Adam browns on Facebook. I’ll have to wait till I get home and can use my wife’s Facebook account
See if this works? If not just get on the Honda OG Facebook page and search his name. It will come up he has done lots of them.
H
HondaTech
Guest
If your still in warranty they shouldn't have any issue fixing it.
I think were doing out of warranty for 6 hrs plus parts, cases get ultrasonic cleaned and exterior cleaned to like new. New seals and moly oil.
Edit: That's in the unit, not just bringing us the sub trans.
I think were doing out of warranty for 6 hrs plus parts, cases get ultrasonic cleaned and exterior cleaned to like new. New seals and moly oil.
Edit: That's in the unit, not just bringing us the sub trans.
toddvdh
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Well, my local dealer has not seen a sub trans that was bad in a pioneer or talon. I bought it used with no warranty so that is out 100%. I tried to ask today. Lol
They are pretty sure it is a cable adjustment or it is overfilled with oil. I assured them it was neither and the sub trans oil is full of metal shavings. So, I'm not going to them for sure. The 2 service guys I talked to killed any chance of that with how they were talking to me.
I think it might have been clunking since I bought it. I'm guessing the previous owner rounded the engagment dogs and quick sold it.
Here is a video of the sound in reverse. I thought it was shifting but after i think about it, it has been getting progressivly worse until it puked. And I don't think the talon or pioneer shifts while in reverse.
youtube.com
They are pretty sure it is a cable adjustment or it is overfilled with oil. I assured them it was neither and the sub trans oil is full of metal shavings. So, I'm not going to them for sure. The 2 service guys I talked to killed any chance of that with how they were talking to me.
I think it might have been clunking since I bought it. I'm guessing the previous owner rounded the engagment dogs and quick sold it.
Here is a video of the sound in reverse. I thought it was shifting but after i think about it, it has been getting progressivly worse until it puked. And I don't think the talon or pioneer shifts while in reverse.
Broken talon
youtube.com
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Any dealer that claims they have never seen a bad Sub Trans in a Pioneer or Talon is flat out LYING!Well, my local dealer has not seen a sub trans that was bad in a pioneer or talon. I bought it used with no warranty so that is out 100%. I tried to ask today. Lol
They are pretty sure it is a cable adjustment or it is overfilled with oil. I assured them it was neither and the sub trans oil is full of metal shavings. So, I'm not going to them for sure. The 2 service guys I talked to killed any chance of that with how they were talking to me.
I think it might have been clunking since I bought it. I'm guessing the previous owner rounded the engagment dogs and quick sold it.
Here is a video of the sound in reverse. I thought it was shifting but after i think about it, it has been getting progressivly worse until it puked. And I don't think the talon or pioneer shifts while in reverse.
Broken talon
Bad cable adjustment is probably what originally caused the rounding of the dogs to begin with and no adjustment at this point can fix that. You are probably right about the previous owner.
You are correct, stock Talons do not shift in reverse.
H
HondaTech
Guest
My latest sub trans rebuild
Cases are original, just cleaned and ran through the ultrasonic cleaner.
Cases are original, just cleaned and ran through the ultrasonic cleaner.
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H
HondaTech
Guest
I just saw this post, to anyone doing it themselves. I dont remove any interior pieces, just peel back the rear firewall half behind the drivers seat to get tot he studs and everything else can be done from underneath.
Slide the diff forward (remove both driveshaft hoops) and it'll drop out the bottom.
