Shock Therapy Talon Review

[1HasBeen]

X3 info and there is a lot of problems, Polaris too. Never blown a belt but they change it after a weekend in the dunes or every 1,000 miles. I just hate belt drive. This video is interesting. $2,500 to make a X3 more reliable.
Shock Therapy LIVE: Making A Trouble FREE X3

And that $2500 is parts, not installation. Doing the bulkhead, gussets, and shock tower bracing is a pretty laborious install. I did it by myself, but there are several steps where a helper would save some cussing. The front end of the X3 is an embarrassingly weak design, and the rear trailing arms do cave in when ridden hard, or in a hard G-out.

 

[jasond]

Anyone interested in a full set of ST springs for an R?

@PaulF , yes if you're truly selling them. PM me information regarding price and the specifics of how your springs are setup (driver/passenger weights, wheels/tires, roof/windshield, bumpers, accessories, etc...).

 

[DRKnight]

This thread is getting interesting, Got my Pop Corn out and following it.
I am seeing real brand loyalty, narrow mindedness, Some jealousy ect.

The first video brings out good points on a untested new product the Talon X.
The second video deals with the short comings found after many hours and miles of field testing.
Both videos where very good and informative and I can say by my experience so far spot on....

I jumped ship to the Honda because of the transmission and I believe they can put out dependable product.
But the first year out of new models can sometime be full of needed improvements, which has been noted on this forum for the Talon.

After my first two rides on my X was going to sell it, due to the most uncomfortable ride I had ever experienced in a UTV
along with all the noise it made.
But I wanted to give it a chance and took it to Shock Therapy and had them set it up to my desires. As they had done for my prior UTV a PoPo.
The machine they gave back to me has been the most pleasurable riding machine I have ever owned.
My Talon was the second or third one they had done at the time for the general public and they hit it spot on...

I have a lot of respect for Justin willingness to tell it like it is and their ability to make a much better and improved machine.
Thanks to them I have no intentions of selling it now and wear headphones to drowned out the noise's.

 

[906UP]

I watched both videos, I don't see why people are mad about his opinions. I also don't see how he's wrong, my Talon rode like an old school F350 lumber wagon. I expected better but OEMs can't make 1 set up that everyone is happy with. That's why aftermarket vendors are in business, so you can modify & adjust it to your liking. What I think is too stiff may be just right for someone else. I just put new springs on mine from Bandit and it's much improved, maybe not perfect for me but much better.

I will say the "Honda Donkey" comment cracked me up a bit.....lol

 

[TalonMatt]

Well this is a Talon form so of course we may be a bit biased. However, I tend to agree that as a seller of goods for SxS he could of presented better. I did get the drift he was bashing talons and pushing the Kawasaki. Wondering if they had a hand in anything with Kawasaki. Hmmmm, let the conspiracy theories start.

 

[IDIOT]

26:06

 

[906UP]

26:06

Haha.... awesome. I'll at least give this guy props for standing by his opinion. I love my #T1Kx and am willing to sacrifice some ride quality for a buggy without a belt & doesnt break.

 

[Kristopher]

26:06

I’d think his opinion is pretty well though out. He did say he owns a talon, as well as Polaris and krx. He’s got a lot of actual driving experience in all these cars and proper race built UTVs, and knows what a proper car should handle. Then relates that to every other. It’s great that he’s not sugar coating it.

 

[HondaTech]

I'll take a unit that will get me back to camp anyway over smooth riding. I've worked on these things for 12 years and unless that Kawasaki is better than the Teryx it'll fall apart just like they did.

My GM went to Brimstone this weekend and towed a broken 4 seat RZR all the way to a gas station down trails and on road to get to a trailer.

On the way the brake fluid boiled over in the rzr and another rock bouncer rzr spit a front driveshaft out, yet another rzr stripped the threads on a rear axle and had to be repaired once they go to town.

They gave him hell when he rolled his Talon out the toy hauler, laughing at how clean it was and his lack of tools for repairs. They wouldn't go faster than 15mph during the whole ride unless it was on pavement, while he's at the back of the pack because no one had a radio.

At the end of the weekend what was left without a flaw? The single TURBO Talon, and on the way home they asked him how he could take trails at speed without beating himself and his girlfriend to death, meanwhile she had fallen asleep.

He has sent his suspension off to Gforce for a compete overhaul, and this thing is still in race form, albeit with different tires. So he can keep his smooth riding BS, ill take my Honda and know I'm getting back home while towing those piece of s**t rzrs behind me.

Edit: For reference, here's the aftermath of the first/only IXCR race this season. 4th in class overheating the entire last lap, no prior UTV racing experience in a turbo class on a pretty much untested setup.

 

[markcieciek]

I have done the shock therapy Spring and valving change on my Honda Talon X it has improve the ride quality a hundred times now it doesn't feel like I'm riding on 4 bricks as well worth the money spent

 

[1HasBeen]

Tuesday, ST says they will explain the geometry issue the Talon and YXZ have.

 

[Hometeam]

The thing with brand loyalty is anybody is going to argue the reason they own what they own and don't own the other products. Shock therapy is no different, they own Can-Ams and they believe there is a reason they own them. We own Hondas and there's a reason we own it. To act like you aren't going to spend thousands on a Can-Am to get it to where it needs to be or a Polaris to where it needs to be so you don't break it is nearsighted thinking. They all have their shortcomings. But the shortcomings of the Honda, or really the Yamaha too, do not leave you stranded on a trail or questioning whether you should do this or that because you're going to break something or tear up a belt. The shortcomings of the Honda revolve around personal preference on ride quality and that is mostly all there is. The low range is not an issue if you continue to keep your cable adjusted properly. And PaulF's shift gate (which is awesome and I would recommend to anyone) extends the window of cable stretch so you technically wouldn't have to check the tension near as often. But the subtrans is not weak or bad it's just the way they have you engage it that makes it a shortcoming if your cable is not properly adjusted. I do think shock therapy knows their stuff when it comes to suspension. I do plan on upgrading the suspension on my X But I would not say that I completely dislike it. It is rough but it keeps the car flat with almost zero body roll. That is not that big of a problem for me but I also am used to cars that have been built for autocross and road racing and they are not smooth rides. So with the suspension it is fun flying through trails knowing that I can throw that thing into a sharp tree ridden corner and it will stay flat and now I can throttle it however I want through the corner sliding it around. The reason I don't like his trashing of the Honda is because for 95% of us we are not and will not be racing these machines but we do want the machine to last and we don't want to have to fix it every time we are out. That to me is the main difference between a Honda Talon and the other brands that he says he drives. When you are changing things every thousand miles to keep them fresh, I'm sorry if I had to do that on my Honda I wouldn't own it. Tires and oil are the only thing I want to change unless I do something dumb to break it myself. At this point I am in the side by side game for pure fun and enjoyment and banging gears and hitting rev limiters puts the biggest smile on my face! I wouldn't change that at all to be able to say I'm sitting on an air cushioned ride.

 

[906UP]

The thing with brand loyalty is anybody is going to argue the reason they own what they own and don't own the other products. Shock therapy is no different, they own Can-Ams and they believe there is a reason they own them. We own Hondas and there's a reason we own it. To act like you aren't going to spend thousands on a Can-Am to get it to where it needs to be or a Polaris to where it needs to be so you don't break it is nearsighted thinking. They all have their shortcomings. But the shortcomings of the Honda, or really the Yamaha too, do not leave you stranded on a trail or questioning whether you should do this or that because you're going to break something or tear up a belt. The shortcomings of the Honda revolve around personal preference on ride quality and that is mostly all there is. The low range is not an issue if you continue to keep your cable adjusted properly. And PaulF's shift gate (which is awesome and I would recommend to anyone) extends the window of cable stretch so you technically wouldn't have to check the tension near as often. But the subtrans is not weak or bad it's just the way they have you engage it that makes it a shortcoming if your cable is not properly adjusted. I do think shock therapy knows their stuff when it comes to suspension. I do plan on upgrading the suspension on my X But I would not say that I completely dislike it. It is rough but it keeps the car flat with almost zero body roll. That is not that big of a problem for me but I also am used to cars that have been built for autocross and road racing and they are not smooth rides. So with the suspension it is fun flying through trails knowing that I can throw that thing into a sharp tree ridden corner and it will stay flat and now I can throttle it however I want through the corner sliding it around. The reason I don't like his trashing of the Honda is because for 95% of us we are not and will not be racing these machines but we do want the machine to last and we don't want to have to fix it every time we are out. That to me is the main difference between a Honda Talon and the other brands that he says he drives. When you are changing things every thousand miles to keep them fresh, I'm sorry if I had to do that on my Honda I wouldn't own it. Tires and oil are the only thing I want to change unless I do something dumb to break it myself. At this point I am in the side by side game for pure fun and enjoyment and banging gears and hitting rev limiters puts the biggest smile on my face! I wouldn't change that at all to be able to say I'm sitting on an air cushioned ride.

Excellent post!

 

[1HasBeen]

It's not about riding like a Cadillac, though better springs and valving provide BOTH improved ride AND better handling. BUT that is not the issue at hand, and it is not about racing, though that would also be benefited. Different regions have different terrain, we all understand that. Here in the West you can get on stretches of whoops that literally go for miles on end. A machine that bucks/kicks, and/or has excessive scrub, and/or has excessive toe change will be hard work to keep straight, and will eventually become uncontrollable. Not racing. With an inherent geometry issue this can not be tuned out. THAT is the issue.

Back when the YXZ was first introduced at the Sand Sports Super Show, my business partner was there, and there was an older gentleman there staring intently at the rear suspension of the YXZ. When asked what was so intriguing, he told my partner "this car has a geometry issue, and they will never tune it out". As it turns out, we later found out that guy studying the YXZ was the late Gil George, the founder of Funco, a pioneering designer of sand cars and desert buggies, and a true legend in the industry. And he was 100% correct. Beyond short-course racing, where they do very well, the YXZ has not accomplished much.

As I said in my previous post, I would love to see Honda take serious market share from the other guys. To do that they need to step it up. Otherwise, be satisfied selling what they can to Honda devotees, and people with beltaphobia. It's not about bashing, it's about improving the breed.

 

[Hometeam]

I never said there wasn't a geometry issue...but it doesn't stop you from going through the whoops....I didn't realize there was a belt replacement mod out there that eliminated the belt??. Beltaphobia as you call it is an unfixable thing from the beginning of "time" and will stop you in your tracks. And the mods needed to make the front end of the Can-Am hold up. That's why I'm saying that when you are racing against others the speed you go through the whoops matters. I'm not saying that if I was building a race unit that I would pick a Honda but I would also understand that I was replacing things and speed was all that mattered for me then.....I do understand what you are saying 1HasBeen and I'm not trying to argue back and forth with you. If going through the whoops as fast as you possibly can and faster than your buddy then your right, don't pick a Honda Talon. But if you want to drive past your buddy while he's replacing his belt and picking the fibers out of his clutch then buy a Honda Talon or a YXZ. I do want Honda to improve the geometry of their suspension. I would say the perfect car would have a turboed high horsepowered Honda drivetrain with Can-Am suspension geometry. But that's not available yet!) Have fun and keep it rubber side down!!!😋

 

[Lil_Steve]

"beltaphobia" 🤣 I'll admit, I'm a little beltaphobic. A non belt machine was one of my top priorities when I chose the Talon.

 

[1HasBeen]

Not arguing at all, I appreciate the discussion 100%. Since the 70s, I have put thousands upon thousands of miles on CVTs in snowmobiles, then later in ATVs and SxSs. Belt failures=0.00, and no I didn't change them every other ride 😋 But the DCT is clearly the future, no question about it. All machines have faults and drawbacks. Again, I appreciate the discussion🤝

 

[Hometeam]

Ditto!! I always appreciate a good debate! You can learn a lot from it....we just live in a time where people get to mad at someone debating with them! Thanks for the convo! I hope to get out west at the end of this year or sometime next year and would love to hook up with some of you West guys for some good riding! ELE! 🤣

And I actually laughed pretty hard when I first read the "beltaphobia" comment...that was good stuff!!

 

[hondabob]

It really sucks to spend $30,000 on a Turbo with belt drive and then another $20,000 to build it for racing. I'm anxious to see the Talon race team results and expect it will take a couple of years to get some wins. The 4 seater with a race build won't cost more then the belt drive Polaris or Can-Am Turbo's. For high mileage trail riding the Talon is still a great choice. It looks like I will be putting on another 15,000 miles in the next year unless there is something better for next year. I would like to have a 4 seat Talon R. It may be possible to swap the Talon X 4 suspension with my 2020 Talon R.

 

[PaulF]

I would like to have a 4 seat Talon R. It may be possible to swap the Talon X 4 suspension with my 2020 Talon R.

The GM at my dealer and I looked at and discussed this exact mod. There is a couple issues that need to be worked out...

1. Rear 4.5 link mount points. The 2 seat R and X use the same frame so turning a 2 seat X into and R is possible. However, the 4 seat X is missing some critical mount points for the rear R suspension. To swap the R suspension to the 4 seater, you will need to fabricate (or cut out from a wrecked 2 seater) the required mount points and supports.
2. Turning Radius. The 2 seat R and the 4 seat X have the same turning radius which is less than the 2 seat X. As discussed on another thread, this is because the R has a limited steering gear to avoid CV bind due to the front swept suspension and the 4X has a longer wheelbase. To avoid CV bind on the 4 seater with R suspension, you would need to use the R steering gear (or put limit stops in the X steering gear). Either option would render the 4 seat "R" with an absolutely horrible turning radius worse than it already is.