P1000 Speed Sensor trouble, will not shift

[MMW]

Hello Folks
I have been a follower of this website for a very long time. I have used it often for learning important detail about the 1000 Pioneer. I recently had an issue with mine, a 2017 model. After riding for a couple of hours the speedometer would only register 0 and the unit would not shift out of 1st gear. I took it to the dealership as the unit is still under warranty. What the technician finally discovered, they kept it for 4 weeks, was that the speed sensor mounted on the top of the front differential had a poor connection to the wiring harness. Electrical issues that are sporadic can be very difficult to locate.
We had been black berry picking preparing to make jelly and I had been driving through a lot of brush and downed limbs just prior to having issues with the Pioneer. Apparently a limb had managed to find its way past the skid plate and stick stoppers and had loosened the connection. There is a speed sensor mounted on the top of the front as well as the rear differential. There is a small metal square cover over each one. The technician installed a new sensor and connector. Now all is well. I hope this post might save someone some head scratching if they have the same problem.

Edit:
I took the critter out for a ride this afternoon. After about an hour's ride the problem showed itself again. I will put it back on the trailer in the morning and take it back to the dealership.
One additional piece of information, when the speedometer starts to just show 0, after another 5 minutes of riding and the power steering alarm\light comes on. It did that the last time the problem arose before I took it in to the shop. The power steering works fine even though the warning light is on, the only difference is the steering may take just a tad more effort to turn the steering wheel.

I will keep this up-dated

 

[Cuoutdoors]

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[MMW]

Thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Thanks for the welcome. I have really enjoyed following this site. A lot of great members for sure!

 

[ag-omwo]

look at post by sunrider on p1000 shift problems.

 

[MMW]

look at post by sunrider on p1000 shift problems.

Thanks for the heads up. I sent a link to the thread you mentioned to the dealership. Fingers and toes crossed!

 

[MMW]

I wanted to up-date this:
I picked up the critter yesterday. It has rained every since so I have not had a chance to test it.
I spoke with the fellow that did the work on it. He said he changed out the computer that controls the shifting as well as the power steering. I am not sure if that is two separate computers or a single computer controlling both functions. Anyway it did not solve the problem. He said he found one chewed spot on part of the wiring harness near the air filter housing. He striped all the wiring harness in that area and found no problems with the wires. He spoke with a Honda Factory Tech and was told the problem with my Pioneer 1000 was a new one on them. He finally changed out all the speed sensors (He had previously changed out the sensor for the front differential).
He said the problem went away after changing out all the speed sensors.

I will test it tomorrow if the rain stops. They kept it for almost 12 weeks all total.
I am considering explaining to the dealership that if the problem re-appears over the next 2 months I expect it to be covered under warranty due to them using up the warranty calendar days with it in their shop. The warranty expired during the last 4 weeks they had it in the shop.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

I wanted to up-date this:
I picked up the critter yesterday. It has rained every since so I have not had a chance to test it.
I spoke with the fellow that did the work on it. He said he changed out the computer that controls the shifting as well as the power steering. I am not sure if that is two separate computers or a single computer controlling both functions. Anyway it did not solve the problem. He said he found one chewed spot on part of the wiring harness near the air filter housing. He striped all the wiring harness in that area and found no problems with the wires. He spoke with a Honda Factory Tech and was told the problem with my Pioneer 1000 was a new one on them. He finally changed out all the speed sensors (He had previously changed out the sensor for the front differential).
He said the problem went away after changing out all the speed sensors.

I will test it tomorrow if the rain stops. They kept it for almost 12 weeks all total.
I am considering explaining to the dealership that if the problem re-appears over the next 2 months I expect it to be covered under warranty due to them using up the warranty calendar days with it in their shop. The warranty expired during the last 4 weeks they had it in the shop.

From what I've saw, The rear diff VSS handles the speedo, The front diff VSS and the subtrans VSS controls the shifting. It will not shift out of first gear if the front VSS is not getting a signal. It should also use one of the VSS's for power steering assist based on vehicle speed.

 

[MMW]

I wanted to up-date this. I finally got a nice bit of weather between chores. I took the critter out for a test run. After about an hour and a half of driving down gravel timber roads the problem re-appeared. Speedometer would only read zero and it would not shift.
There were some slightly different symptoms this time though. The previous times that power steering trouble light came on at the same time the speedometer quit reading. This time there was about a 20 to 30 minute delay to the warning light coming on after the speedometer quit reading. This is different.
This time when the warning light came on the power steering quit working and the steering became stiff comparable to the stiffness when of all the diff. locks are engaged. This maybe new\different or not, maybe I was more attuned to it today than the previous two times.
Also when the speedometer quit reading this time there was no engine braking. This is new. I happened to be riding on the same stretch of road as when the first incident happen. Before the engine braking would keep the speed slow while going down the hills. This time it was as though the transmission was in neutral when going down the hills. This is new\different.
Also when the speedometer quit reading this time the speedometer showed zero even though I was doing 7 or 8 mph, but only for a second or so. The speedometer started reading correctly for about 15 seconds or so and then would only show zero. This is different from the first time this problem occurred. The first time the problem occurred I happen to be watching the speedometer just as I was today. The first occurrence the speedometer would only read zero it happened all at once. There was no momentary bad reading like happened today.
I tried using the paddles to force a shift in both automatic and manual and it would not shift. I have checked the voltmeter reading each time and it is always 14.3 or 14.2 volts showing on the meter.

This sucks, I have to take it back to the dealership tomorrow or Thursday. Deer season starts Saturday. I guess my four wheeler will have to come out of semi-retirement.

 

[0860silverado]

I wanted to up-date this. I finally got a nice bit of weather between chores. I took the critter out for a test run. After about an hour and a half of driving down gravel timber roads the problem re-appeared. Speedometer would only read zero and it would not shift.
There were some slightly different symptoms this time though. The previous times that power steering trouble light came on at the same time the speedometer quit reading. This time there was about a 20 to 30 minute delay to the warning light coming on after the speedometer quit reading. This is different.
This time when the warning light came on the power steering quit working and the steering became stiff comparable to the stiffness when of all the diff. locks are engaged. This maybe new\different or not, maybe I was more attuned to it today than the previous two times.
Also when the speedometer quit reading this time there was no engine braking. This is new. I happened to be riding on the same stretch of road as when the first incident happen. Before the engine braking would keep the speed slow while going down the hills. This time it was as though the transmission was in neutral when going down the hills. This is new\different.
Also when the speedometer quit reading this time the speedometer showed zero even though I was doing 7 or 8 mph, but only for a second or so. The speedometer started reading correctly for about 15 seconds or so and then would only show zero. This is different from the first time this problem occurred. The first time the problem occurred I happen to be watching the speedometer just as I was today. The first occurrence the speedometer would only read zero it happened all at once. There was no momentary bad reading like happened today.
I tried using the paddles to force a shift in both automatic and manual and it would not shift. I have checked the voltmeter reading each time and it is always 14.3 or 14.2 volts showing on the meter.

This sucks, I have to take it back to the dealership tomorrow or Thursday. Deer season starts Saturday. I guess my four wheeler will have to come out of semi-retirement.

When this condition occurs, you should stop driving immediately! Your clutches aren't fully engaged and are slightly slipping the entire time. Mine had this same exact issue and by the time I got back home, there was so much heat buildup that I could smell hot oil and plastic. My problem was never positively identified but it is gone. All I did was make sure all my grounds were tight and made sure my battery connections were tight. (No obvious problem found but maybe the wiggling of the wires was enough to make connection). Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[MMW]

I wanted to up-date this. I picked up the critter today. I will test drive it tomorrow. The Technician told me what he found wrong with the machine was a loose electrical plug connection behind the speedometer. He said he hadn't been looking in that direction because the other Pioneers have soldered connections for the speedometer, the 1000 is the only one that uses a electrical plug.
He said the connection has a large rubber boot over that part of the speedometer. He said he realized there was a plug by really studying the wire diagram which he said is a complicated wiring diagram. When he removed the rubber boot to look the connector fell loose. The connector has two locking tabs and it would not be possible for it to come loose and that it had never been plugged in properly from the factory. He said the code kept indicating a bad front speed sensor. There is a 10 inch lead that runs from the sensor to the speedometer. That lead is one of the connections made with the electrical connector. They ran it for 3 hours as a test, the problem always showed up after about an hour run time. Fingers and toes crossed that the test drive tomorrow goes well.

As an aside, I told him I was very glad the work was done under warranty as I would not want to cover his man-hours. He said he estimated he has 40 hours labor into fixing it. It has been in their shop 3 times for a total over 3 and 1/2 months. The posted hourly rate is $85 per hour.
He said Honda does not cover hours for trouble shooting hours only for actual repairs.

 

[Ragnar406]

Notice your in AR - what dealer are you taking it to? Hopefully they have it fixed for you this time. Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[MMW]

Notice your in AR - what dealer are you taking it to? Hopefully they have it fixed for you this time. Thanks for keeping us updated.

John's Honda, they are located in Hot Springs.

I spoke with the fellow doing the work each time I picked it up, the man is really trying hard to fix the problem (It was the same fellow each time). I would not want anyone to walk away with a bad impression of the folks at the dealership, the fellow was doing his very best to fix the problem. They are a bit pricy and the Honda dealership in Russelville almost always beats them on price, but they are 30 minutes away and Russellville is about 2 1/2 hours away.

 

[MMW]

Good Grief! Once again I am up-dating this. I took the critter out for the test drive today. After about 2 hours riding the problem reoccurred. The symptoms were a bit different after the speedometer quit reading. As with the last time the power steering warning light came on about 15 minutes after the speedometer quit reading. The warning light came on at the same time the speedometer quit reading the first two times. This time the check engine light came on about 20 minutes after the speedometer quit reading, this is the first time the engine warning light has came on. It came on steady for a couple minutes and then would start blinking for about 6 or 7 fast blinks it continued this pattern. I stopped and turned the machine off for about 1 minute and restarted it. It made no difference. I rode about another 20 minutes and decided to shut the machine down for about 10 minutes. I restarted the machine and all was well for about 15 minutes, then the speedometer quit again and the power steering warning light came on but the engine check light did not come back on. Both times I tried the paddle shifter, it would occasionally shift from 1 to second but not in any predictable manner. I had my squirrel dogs with me otherwise I would have tested the machine in a lot of different manners. I drove for about 20 minutes more with the speedometer not showing anything but zero and the power steering light on. When I got off the gravel road I shut it down for about 5 minutes and then restarted it. It worked just fine but it was only about a 15 to 20 minute ride to the house.
I will do additional testing tomorrow.
This is just about to get on my bad side, after 3 and 1/2 months of, in the shop time, this should be fixed. It takes a long time to get on my bad side, but once that happens it normally sticks around for a while.

 

[0860silverado]

Good Grief! Once again I am up-dating this. I took the critter out for the test drive today. After about 2 hours riding the problem reoccurred. The symptoms were a bit different after the speedometer quit reading. As with the last time the power steering warning light came on about 15 minutes after the speedometer quit reading. The warning light came on at the same time the speedometer quit reading the first two times. This time the check engine light came on about 20 minutes after the speedometer quit reading, this is the first time the engine warning light has came on. It came on steady for a couple minutes and then would start blinking for about 6 or 7 fast blinks it continued this pattern. I stopped and turned the machine off for about 1 minute and restarted it. It made no difference. I rode about another 20 minutes and decided to shut the machine down for about 10 minutes. I restarted the machine and all was well for about 15 minutes, then the speedometer quit again and the power steering warning light came on but the engine check light did not come back on. Both times I tried the paddle shifter, it would occasionally shift from 1 to second but not in any predictable manner. I had my squirrel dogs with me otherwise I would have tested the machine in a lot of different manners. I drove for about 20 minutes more with the speedometer not showing anything but zero and the power steering light on. When I got off the gravel road I shut it down for about 5 minutes and then restarted it. It worked just fine but it was only about a 15 to 20 mine ride to the house.
I will do additional testing tomorrow.
This is just about to get on my bad side, after 3 and 1/2 months of, in the shop time, this should be fixed. It takes a long time to get on my bad side, but once that happens it normally sticks around for a while.

I feel your frustration. My Honda has given me some pretty serious problems. But, once you get it all fixed, it's a pretty good machine. Just got a bad rep for quality control. I'd bet that you have the infamous ground problem. There are three ground points on this machine and a fair amount, (including me), of members have had this problem which will lead to symptoms as you describe.

 

[Neohio]

Good Grief! Once again I am up-dating this. I took the critter out for the test drive today. After about 2 hours riding the problem reoccurred. The symptoms were a bit different after the speedometer quit reading. As with the last time the power steering warning light came on about 15 minutes after the speedometer quit reading. The warning light came on at the same time the speedometer quit reading the first two times. This time the check engine light came on about 20 minutes after the speedometer quit reading, this is the first time the engine warning light has came on. It came on steady for a couple minutes and then would start blinking for about 6 or 7 fast blinks it continued this pattern. I stopped and turned the machine off for about 1 minute and restarted it. It made no difference. I rode about another 20 minutes and decided to shut the machine down for about 10 minutes. I restarted the machine and all was well for about 15 minutes, then the speedometer quit again and the power steering warning light came on but the engine check light did not come back on. Both times I tried the paddle shifter, it would occasionally shift from 1 to second but not in any predictable manner. I had my squirrel dogs with me otherwise I would have tested the machine in a lot of different manners. I drove for about 20 minutes more with the speedometer not showing anything but zero and the power steering light on. When I got off the gravel road I shut it down for about 5 minutes and then restarted it. It worked just fine but it was only about a 15 to 20 mine ride to the house.
I will do additional testing tomorrow.
This is just about to get on my bad side, after 3 and 1/2 months of, in the shop time, this should be fixed. It takes a long time to get on my bad side, but once that happens it normally sticks around for a while.

If you carry a cell phone. Please video the dash while it is acting up. It will help your dealer greatly in moving forward and repairing this properly.
If you want to post it here for our help, you are more than welcome. Having 100+ brains looking at it might help get to a solution faster than one tech.

 

[hondabob]

If the grounds are ok swap a computer with another 2017, its a easy test and see if the problem will transfer. My buddy had a intermittent problem and they changed a lot of parts including the wiring harness. It ended up being a bad computer. Can't remember what his problem was but they had his machine in and out of the shop for 6 months. It does really suck when this happens. Mine had been wonderful and I'm at 17, 295 miles now with no breakdowns.

 

[HondaTech]

Not to discredit your dealership or it's techs but all Honda ATVs and SXSs have an electrical plug connecting the meter to the wiring harness. Now some are plugged directly into the back of the meter and some have a pigtail.

But back to your issue at hand. My old DSM told me when checking grounds that sometimes the bolt will feel tight but actually will be not tight enough or have something in the threads that wont allow it to clamp all the way. I'd suggest removing all the ground bolts, clean the threads and then retighten.

Also when they have the unit and can get the symptoms to appear, try hooking the MCS up and see if all the computers are reading ok. I've had a 3 seater that shifted really hard and when attached to the MCS, the Power Steering ECM was the only computer I could read. Turns out I had a bad ground and the Power Steering ECM had its own path to ground, while the F.I ECM relied on the ground bolted to the front of the engine.

May also have them check battery voltage and charging system output, maybe your loosing power somewhere or dropping voltage for whatever reason. I had a 5 seat LE with and an unplugged regulator that would only cause the I-4wd to act up, figure that 1 out after the customer mentioned he had to keep charging the battery.

issues like this can drive you crazy, just when you think it's whipped it pops up again.

 

[MMW]

I feel your frustration. My Honda has given me some pretty serious problems. But, once you get it all fixed, it's a pretty good machine. Just got a bad rep for quality control. I'd bet that you have the infamous ground problem. There are three ground points on this machine and a fair amount, (including me), of members have had this problem which will lead to symptoms as you describe.

The fellow checked all the grounds as well as all the crimped connections involved.

 

[MMW]

Not to discredit your dealership or it's techs but all Honda ATVs and SXSs have an electrical plug connecting the meter to the wiring harness. Now some are plugged directly into the back of the meter and some have a pigtail.

But back to your issue at hand. My old DSM told me when checking grounds that sometimes the bolt will feel tight but actually will be not tight enough or have something in the threads that wont allow it to clamp all the way. I'd suggest removing all the ground bolts, clean the threads and then retighten.

Also when they have the unit and can get the symptoms to appear, try hooking the MCS up and see if all the computers are reading ok. I've had a 3 seater that shifted really hard and when attached to the MCS, the Power Steering ECM was the only computer I could read. Turns out I had a bad ground and the Power Steering ECM had its own path to ground, while the F.I ECM relied on the ground bolted to the front of the engine.

May also have them check battery voltage and charging system output, maybe your loosing power somewhere or dropping voltage for whatever reason. I had a 5 seat LE with and an unplugged regulator that would only cause the I-4wd to act up, figure that 1 out after the customer mentioned he had to keep charging the battery.

issues like this can drive you crazy, just when you think it's whipped it pops up again.

The voltmeter display shows 14.1 to 14.3 volts, even during the problem.

 

[HondaTech]

The voltmeter display shows 14.1 to 14.3 volts, even during the problem.

Sounds like the bases are covered then. Maybe the ECM is at fault here.

Edit: With the PS light illuminating, the ECM theory is sort of not valid since the PS has its own controller. This still seems like a loss of full power or ground.