H
HondaTech
Guest
I'm honestly completely lost, I maybe could figure something out if I had it front of me.
But man I dont know.
But man I dont know.
I have seen several posts concerning that. Try a search.
Also your query might not get noticed on buried this thread. Try posting a separate thread and it should get noticed.
I wanted to take the time to, once again, up-date this. The good news is the problem has been fixed. I have put almost 60 miles and a good number of hours on the machine with no problems.
This is what was done to solve the problem:
In the compartment under the drives seat there is a ECM (electronic control module) The max temp the module is supposed to with stand and still function properly is 150*. The ECM on my machine would fail at 140*. This would normally not have been a problem as typically the compartment normally only gets to 115*.
When I bought the machine I had the dealer install a factory cab heater. It was a $1,200 option. The heater core and fan was installed in the compartment below the drivers seat, the same compartment housing the ECM. The compartment would reach a temp. of 160* after several hours use causing the ECM to fail. Restarting the machine after a brief shutdown (3 to 5 seconds). The restarting process caused the ECM to reboot and function normally. The time period of normal operating would become shorter as the compartment temp. became higher and higher. One of the diagnostic tricks that was tried was to put the machine up on jack stands and run the machine for 4 or 5 hours with a hair dryer blowing on the ECM. The machine functioned properly the entire time. It was determined that the reason that diagnostic trick did not work is because the wheels were rotating in sync with out ever changing any wheel speed as would happen if the machine had been turning corners and such. With out that feed back change, the programing in the ECM feed back from the throttle position and steering feed back the part of the programing that was failing would not show its self. It is important to note that the ECM in the driver seat compartment would fail for a period of time before the speedometer would quit working. It was explained to me that the programming for the ECM that controls the speedometer is written so that the speedometer quits working only after an extended period of time without any feed back from the ECM located under the driver's seat.
This was only the 3rd factory heater that Honda had installed in my region of the country (Arkansas here). Honda speculated that had the machine been used in a cooler region of the country the problem would have likely never made it's self evident.
(That is something to bear in mind if you live up north and have a cab heater and are planning on using your machine down south, especially in the summertime)
Honda is also looking at determining a different location of either the heater core or the ECM on machines with the factory heaters.
On my machine the technician installed a heat reflecting membrane on the heater core (The membrane looks like bubble wrap with a reflective surface on one side and an adhesive layer on the other) the heater hoses were also wrapped with the same tape.
Honda also replaced the ECM. After the material had been installed the max temp. of the compartment is 95*.
As a courtesy to compensate me for the frustration of having the machine in the shop and out of use for as much time as it was, Honda gave me an extra 1 year factory warranty at no cost. That satisfied me. And I am very glad to have a working machine. Honda also performed the 2nd maintenance requirements for the machine at no cost. They also installed new spark plugs as a courtesy due to the number of hours the machine had spent running in the shop trying to discover the root of the problem.
I am happy with the machine and I am glad I bought a Honda and I was very impressed with some of the measures they went to trying to solve the problem. They had even offered me use of another machine just in-case I had vacation plans and had planned on taking the Pioneer with me.
The thing I feel the most upset about is that Honda doesn't pay the technician for all the hours he spent trying to solve the problem, the diagnosing.
As an aside, I had been disappointed with the fuel mileage of the machine. After the second servicing had been completed the fuel mileage has increased markedly. The difference in fuel mileage before\after has been rather amazing. I had read several threads about that very thing but I was doubtful. Now I am a believer!
I hope this saga helps someone else that might be having the same sort of problem.
Thanks MMW
This is what was done to solve the problem:
In the compartment under the drives seat there is a ECM (electronic control module) The max temp the module is supposed to with stand and still function properly is 150*. The ECM on my machine would fail at 140*. This would normally not have been a problem as typically the compartment normally only gets to 115*.
When I bought the machine I had the dealer install a factory cab heater. It was a $1,200 option. The heater core and fan was installed in the compartment below the drivers seat, the same compartment housing the ECM. The compartment would reach a temp. of 160* after several hours use causing the ECM to fail. Restarting the machine after a brief shutdown (3 to 5 seconds). The restarting process caused the ECM to reboot and function normally. The time period of normal operating would become shorter as the compartment temp. became higher and higher. One of the diagnostic tricks that was tried was to put the machine up on jack stands and run the machine for 4 or 5 hours with a hair dryer blowing on the ECM. The machine functioned properly the entire time. It was determined that the reason that diagnostic trick did not work is because the wheels were rotating in sync with out ever changing any wheel speed as would happen if the machine had been turning corners and such. With out that feed back change, the programing in the ECM feed back from the throttle position and steering feed back the part of the programing that was failing would not show its self. It is important to note that the ECM in the driver seat compartment would fail for a period of time before the speedometer would quit working. It was explained to me that the programming for the ECM that controls the speedometer is written so that the speedometer quits working only after an extended period of time without any feed back from the ECM located under the driver's seat.
This was only the 3rd factory heater that Honda had installed in my region of the country (Arkansas here). Honda speculated that had the machine been used in a cooler region of the country the problem would have likely never made it's self evident.
(That is something to bear in mind if you live up north and have a cab heater and are planning on using your machine down south, especially in the summertime)
Honda is also looking at determining a different location of either the heater core or the ECM on machines with the factory heaters.
On my machine the technician installed a heat reflecting membrane on the heater core (The membrane looks like bubble wrap with a reflective surface on one side and an adhesive layer on the other) the heater hoses were also wrapped with the same tape.
Honda also replaced the ECM. After the material had been installed the max temp. of the compartment is 95*.
As a courtesy to compensate me for the frustration of having the machine in the shop and out of use for as much time as it was, Honda gave me an extra 1 year factory warranty at no cost. That satisfied me. And I am very glad to have a working machine. Honda also performed the 2nd maintenance requirements for the machine at no cost. They also installed new spark plugs as a courtesy due to the number of hours the machine had spent running in the shop trying to discover the root of the problem.
I am happy with the machine and I am glad I bought a Honda and I was very impressed with some of the measures they went to trying to solve the problem. They had even offered me use of another machine just in-case I had vacation plans and had planned on taking the Pioneer with me.
The thing I feel the most upset about is that Honda doesn't pay the technician for all the hours he spent trying to solve the problem, the diagnosing.
As an aside, I had been disappointed with the fuel mileage of the machine. After the second servicing had been completed the fuel mileage has increased markedly. The difference in fuel mileage before\after has been rather amazing. I had read several threads about that very thing but I was doubtful. Now I am a believer!
I hope this saga helps someone else that might be having the same sort of problem.
Thanks MMW
Smitty335
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
YEA for our side! Your thread has been very helpful to me understanding my issue. When I run hard and shut the machine down quickly, the restart goes crazy, high RPM, no gear engagement, let it set a little and no issues. I did install a fan under the passenger side seat for the header heat and I never put two and two together, I wonder if the header heat is goofing up my ECM without the fan running? This started after the factory seat heat shields were installed! Thanks!
Last edited:
Q
Can you provide the link you are referencing? I'm new to the forum and was not successful in finding it. I'm probably not searching correctly.
Q
M
CID
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
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WOW!! I had recently installed an aftermarket heater in my P1000-3 2016 base model, an Inferno Max. And when it gets really warm out, and I have been idling for a while, I have issues with the transmission going to first gear and not wanting to shift, accompanied by flashing # 1 in the dash where it show you what gear you are in. Seems I may be overheating the PCM as well, I have been looking at putting in a couple sump cooling fans, and maybe even a side exhaust fan to help cool things during the summer. I had already checked and tightened and added star washers to all of my grounds. This seems to fit your pattern. It always works fine when cool. Guess I NEED to get to the aux cooling fans soon. Thanks for the writeup!!
