P700 Very low on oil...almost screwed up

[livefromthetree]

I am not the best in the world and regular maintenance like checking oil etc. On anything new I usually do regular services, but dont usually pay any attention between the scheduled services unless there's a problem.

I am about 1200 miles on my 2020 700 and did my 2nd service back in September, running all deer season without a care in the world. Yesterday, out of the blue I decided to pull the dipstick and I am at the very bottom of the level markings I am still a couple hundred miles before my next service and the machine is running fine, but I could have easily run it a few hundred more without checking.

Didnt have any oil on hand, so I left it parked and went ahead and ordered a couple gallons to be here in day or 2.

Could have been bad...so yeah check your oil. Any of yours go through that much between services?

 

[Mudwing]

The oil check procedure can yield you differing results if not checked according to the manual. Don’t screw in the dipstick to check. After oil change I check for the next couple rides, after that I trust my levels and may check every other ride or so. I use zero oil between changes. 😎

 

[trigger]

You'll use some oil if you run full synthetic.

 

[livefromthetree]

The oil check procedure can yield you differing results if not checked according to the manual. Don’t screw in the dipstick to check. After oil change I check for the next couple rides, after that I trust my levels and may check every other ride or so. I use zero oil between changes. 😎

Definitely wondering why I would have used this much oil. Checked it with the stick unscrewed and on a relatively cold engine. Only started it for a minute to get the lawn mower out.

Course I will probably add oil to get to that magical 3.1 level and it'll pour all over the floor from being overflowed 🤣

You'll use some oil if you run full synthetic.

I havent changed to full synthetic, but may in the future

 

[tjoreo]

The oil check procedure is a pain. On my 700 I checked it one day before riding and it was way low even after the right procedure. I ended up adding a little I had on hand so we could complete our ride. When I got home I checked it again and it was way high. I finally figured as long as I didn't see or smell oil I was probably okay. I started using Synthetic as mentioned above so I would change it every 400 miles or so, and usually forget about it in between.

 

[tjoreo]

It doesn't talk about it in the book but I believe moving it has something to do with the oil discrepancy too. I finally did the same procedure all the time. My OCD would kick in so I would warm it for 3 minutes let it sit for 5 without moving from the spot I would park it at. Even then it was a little hit and miss.

 

[DG Rider]

@tjoreo nailed it. You have to be consistent with exactly what you do with the oil check to get any ideal of actual usage, and varying from it causes different readings on the stick.

Above 50f, run 5 minutes, let sit 2 - 3, and check. Below 50, add another 5 minutes to the run time. Additionally, if it's getting down close to that 50f mark outside, my machine will not put a bar on the gauge in the allotted 5 minutes, so I run it until the 1 bar appears.

Checking it "in the morning" before startup will give you a very high reading, as will checking it 2 hours into a ride. As mentioned, the factory service manual says not to rev or "snap" the throttle during the 5-10 minutes of warm up, though the owners manual doesn't mention this. I hate the oil check procedure for these, and I'm convinced the majority of 700's are running around with too-high or low oil levels.
I always put the "low" side of the level at the full line.

I switched from super tech to rotella t6 a few months ago and stated that it seemed to have stopped the oil consumption, but a few more rides in proved this not to be true. We're talking about a minuscule amount of oil, but it does use some. Interestingly enough, I haven't had to add any for the last 3 rides which were in warmer weather AND up against my oil change which I'll probably be doing tonight. The memories are foggy now, but I'm thinking that maybe my first 700 did the same thing...IE-taking a couple thousand miles to seem like it really got broken in. This would make sense considering I switched to synthetic at 100 miles on both, so the machine certainly wasn't broken in completely that point. Guess time will tell.

 

[livefromthetree]

@tjoreo nailed it. You have to be consistent with exactly what you do with the oil check to get any ideal of actual usage, and varying from it causes different readings on the stick.

Above 50f, run 5 minutes, let sit 2 - 3, and check. Below 50, add another 5 minutes to the run time. Additionally, if it's getting down close to that 50f mark outside, my machine will not put a bar on the gauge in the allotted 5 minutes, so I run it until the 1 bar appears.

Checking it "in the morning" before startup will give you a very high reading, as will checking it 2 hours into a ride. As mentioned, the factory service manual says not to rev or "snap" the throttle during the 5-10 minutes of warm up, though the owners manual doesn't mention this. I hate the oil check procedure for these, and I'm convinced the majority of 700's are running around with too-high or low oil levels.
I always put the "low" side of the level at the full line.

I switched from super tech to rotella t6 a few months ago and stated that it seemed to have stopped the oil consumption, but a few more rides in proved this not to be true. We're talking about a minuscule amount of oil, but it does use some. Interestingly enough, I haven't had to add any for the last 3 rides which were in warmer weather AND up against my oil change which I'll probably be doing tonight. The memories are foggy now, but I'm thinking that maybe my first 700 did the same thing...IE-taking a couple thousand miles to seem like it really got broken in. This would make sense considering I switched to synthetic at 100 miles on both, so the machine certainly wasn't broken in completely that point. Guess time will tell.

So after reading this, I tried running it for 5 mins or so and then checked after a couple minutes sitting. The level came up to the middle of the line marks. Still not in the sweet spot of a slight overfill, but at least not engine blow up dangerous like I was worried about.

 

[DG Rider]

So after reading this, I tried running it for 5 mins or so and then checked after a couple minutes sitting. The level came up to the middle of the line marks. Still not in the sweet spot of a slight overfill, but at least not engine blow up dangerous like I was worried about.

So how did you do it the 1st time?
In my experience, if the machine sits overnight or something, and you just pull the stick, the level reads much higher.
In my experience running the machine a shorter time, and checking it (esp in cold weather ) usually has the level low, especially if you don't let it sit for the few minutes. And I've also experimented with a 5-minute/10 minute run, and it typically reads higher with the 10 minute.

I don't know how to explain the discrepancies. Obviously, oil..like everything else, expands and contracts with temperature but not that much. Maybe it's something where it has to fill the torque converter or maybe just the drain back is better...

Like I said, I hate the oil check procedure for these things. It's fussy. That's why I stick to what the manual says. I trust if Honda says to do this and this amount of oil is sufficient for use, then it'll be okay. I'm closing in on 10,000 miles of 700 use, so I must be doing it right.

 

[Fischer]

The weird thing on mine is whether I check it cold with no start or do the Honda method, it's almost the same.

 

[DG Rider]

Here's an example:

Sitting for 24 hrs, no running. Dead cold. Top of the indentation on the stick.

After the 5 min/3 min run/sit: High side of the oil hovering right on the full line:

As a further note, my high side last night was maybe 3/16th above the full line where I run it, but that check was after several minutes of running for the change, the cool down for the change, and then the new oil being run again for 5/3. That was the difference between starting with dead cold oil and run time and slightly warm engine and the slight heating it did w/the extra run time.

Fortunately, I am familiar with this phenomenon with oil changes, so I always check it the next day from dead cold. I added a bit back to where I wanted it after the pic.

Like I said, fussy...

 

[livefromthetree]

So how did you do it the 1st time?
In my experience, if the machine sits overnight or something, and you just pull the stick, the level reads much higher.
In my experience running the machine a shorter time, and checking it (esp in cold weather ) usually has the level low, especially if you don't let it sit for the few minutes. And I've also experimented with a 5-minute/10 minute run, and it typically reads higher with the 10 minute.

I don't know how to explain the discrepancies. Obviously, oil..like everything else, expands and contracts with temperature but not that much. Maybe it's something where it has to fill the torque converter or maybe just the drain back is better...

Like I said, I hate the oil check procedure for these things. It's fussy. That's why I stick to what the manual says. I trust if Honda says to do this and this amount of oil is sufficient for use, then it'll be okay. I'm closing in on 10,000 miles of 700 use, so I must be doing it right.

The first pull was on a cold engine sitting a few days. The second was after warming up a bit.

I am perplexed (big word for a country boy ) to say the least. My biggest question is why the significant drop from the last oil change. Cant believe I havent noticed anything in the shifting.

 

[tjoreo]

I hated the discrepancy and change when checking the oil. It really messed with my OCD. So like I said I finally reverted to changing the oil at every 400 miles (I also went to T6) and being very meticulous when filling to make sure I didn't spill any. If you have changed it before, you know how hard it is to fill because you have to go SUPER slow to allow it to drain through the hose. Another pet peeve. After that I would just check it over very well to make sure there wasn't a leak before a ride, but I figured that it was a Honda so the likely hood of it leaking was pretty minimal. I guess after 4800 miles it never hurt me and the friend of mine I sold it to has been doing the same thing for the last 2 years.

 

[CID]

The Talon has a similar, laughable and unrepeatable oil level checking procedure. My solution, change oil and filters, fill with the amount of oil Honda spec’s, start and idle for a few minutes to soak the filters, shut it off and walk away, check oil level later, remember where the oil hits the dipstick, that’s my ‘Full’ mark forevermore.

Doing it this way, I can check the oil, at home, on the trailer any time I want with a cold engine which is very convenient since I walk by it a dozen times a week. If I’m in camp and level, I can check it in the morning before the ride. No more letting it idle for 3-5 minutes, let it sit for 2-3 minutes, then check - ridiculously inaccurate IMO and who wears a watch nowadays? WTF Honda? obtw: where’s the oil level window in the crankcase like my motorcycles?

 

[DG Rider]

The first pull was on a cold engine sitting a few days. The second was after warming up a bit.

I am perplexed (big word for a country boy ) to say the least. My biggest question is why the significant drop from the last oil change. Cant believe I havent noticed anything in the shifting.

It's probably using it. Mine always has. It's not a lot that I have to add, but over the course of the oil change interval, it'd be enough to go from full to low, and it's done it from day one.

Given what you've seen here, you see how it can be pretty tough to judge any oil usage in these things unless it was pretty significant.

 

[DG Rider]

The Talon has a similar, laughable and unrepeatable oil level checking procedure. My solution, change oil and filters, fill with the amount of oil Honda spec’s, start and idle for a few minutes to soak the filters, shut it off and walk away, check oil level later, remember where the oil hits the dipstick, that’s my ‘Full’ mark forevermore.

Doing it this way, I can check the oil, at home, on the trailer any time I want with a cold engine which is very convenient since I walk by it a dozen times a week. If I’m in camp and level, I can check it in the morning before the ride. No more letting it idle for 3-5 minutes, let it sit for 2-3 minutes, then check - ridiculously inaccurate IMO and who wears a watch nowadays? WTF Honda? obtw: where’s the oil level window in the crankcase like my motorcycles?

My suggestion would be to follow the procedure in the manual. Maybe the talon is different, but you can see above why checking it from dead cold may not give accurate readings.

I think the issue is the design of the engines. Honda calls the 700 a "semi-dry sump" engine, which has been explained as a dry sump engine, but with an INTERNAL storage tank/area as opposed to external one. I believe they call the 500 this as well, and it uses a similar procedure, but isn't quite as fussy...but I think the torque converter in the 700 adds some complication to this.
@HondaTech any thoughts?

 

[livefromthetree]

All good info. Gonna add oil and ride. But will definitely be more diligent about checking it monthly now