Talon X4 grinding on low and even popping out of gear

[Jefferson87]

What'd you replace it with?

I don't have a dog in this hunt, but after us 700 owners have been dreaming of a low range for years, I wonder if maybe we're better off without it, as it seems a sore spot for modern Hondas.

It seems like the majority of them have no issues (and I DO see plenty on the trails), but what you've seen above (user error) seems to be the go-to excuse. I will say this: if your design requires the cable to be adjusted with laser like precision to keep from damaging itself, it needs redesigning.

To compound the cable issue, they also used a poor design in engagement and from what I've read, didn't heat treat it. 2 times grinding and you're done. Mean while, I've seen Polaris guys have occasional grinding 100s of times without issue.

The actual low range sucks too, it's only slightly lower than high, I think 2nd gear low is the same as 1st high. Why do I need to do 60 in low range?

Replaced it with this, couldn't be happier.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

To compound the cable issue, they also used a poor design in engagement and from what I've read, didn't heat treat it. 2 times grinding and you're done. Mean while, I've seen Polaris guys have occasional grinding 100s of times without issue.

The actual low range sucks too, it's only slightly lower than high, I think 2nd gear low is the same as 1st high. Why do I need to do 60 in low range?

Replaced it with this, couldn't be happier. View attachment 308862

Samurai?

 

[DG Rider]

To compound the cable issue, they also used a poor design in engagement and from what I've read, didn't heat treat it. 2 times grinding and you're done. Mean while, I've seen Polaris guys have occasional grinding 100s of times without issue.

The actual low range sucks too, it's only slightly lower than high, I think 2nd gear low is the same as 1st high. Why do I need to do 60 in low range?

Replaced it with this, couldn't be happier. View attachment 308862

Samurai?

Yep. The original SxS.

 

[Hometeam]

All I can say is I have 2 Talons and we beat on them and use low 90% of the time, hitting toughest trails at the parks we can find....and have 0 issues. 1 is a 2020 with almost 3k on it and a 2021 with 2k on it. And they are being driven by my 16 yo, 13 oy, wife and even my 9 yo all drive them. But I make sure my cable is gtg and I put shift plates in both of them from the get go! I also had 2 Pioneers with 0 issues!! I know more people without issues than with issues. I also have about 5-6 other Talons owned by friends of mine with 0 issues! I am sorry that you had issues but it sounds to me like yours came without the cable correct or had a factory issue that never got completely fixed. I also ride with other brands and we are always fixing or pulling them out of the trails. I am going on 6 years with Honda sxs and this has been my 6 year experience. Low has been low enough for me with 32's on black trails!!! I am not saying that I think the shift mechanism couldn't be a better setup....

 

[Jerryg]

You guys make fun of Yamaha for having a belt, but I have a high and low gear range with no such problems.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

You guys make fun of Yamaha for having a belt, but I have a high and low gear range with no such problems.

But it's a Yamaha..... so there is that.

 

[HondaTech]

But it's a Yamaha..... so there is that.

Hey, atleast its not a Polaris.

 

[Jerryg]

But it's a Yamaha..... so there is that.

Sorry but Yamaha is definitely taking Power Sports a little more seriously than Honda these days.

 

[Jefferson87]

All I can say is I have 2 Talons and we beat on them and use low 90% of the time, hitting toughest trails at the parks we can find....and have 0 issues. 1 is a 2020 with almost 3k on it and a 2021 with 2k on it. And they are being driven by my 16 yo, 13 oy, wife and even my 9 yo all drive them. But I make sure my cable is gtg and I put shift plates in both of them from the get go! I also had 2 Pioneers with 0 issues!! I know more people without issues than with issues. I also have about 5-6 other Talons owned by friends of mine with 0 issues! I am sorry that you had issues but it sounds to me like yours came without the cable correct or had a factory issue that never got completely fixed. I also ride with other brands and we are always fixing or pulling them out of the trails. I am going on 6 years with Honda sxs and this has been my 6 year experience. Low has been low enough for me with 32's on black trails!!! I am not saying that I think the shift mechanism couldn't be a better setup....

Are they 4 seaters?

 

[Jefferson87]

Samurai?

Yes, it's slow, and rides rough, but it's as reliable as a hammer and I have like 3 SxS payments into it, lol.

I can also fix and upgrade it myself when it does break, as well as drive it down any highway in the US.

 

[Sheetmetalfab]

All I can say is I have 2 Talons and we beat on them and use low 90% of the time, hitting toughest trails at the parks we can find....and have 0 issues. 1 is a 2020 with almost 3k on it and a 2021 with 2k on it. And they are being driven by my 16 yo, 13 oy, wife and even my 9 yo all drive them. But I make sure my cable is gtg and I put shift plates in both of them from the get go! I also had 2 Pioneers with 0 issues!! I know more people without issues than with issues. I also have about 5-6 other Talons owned by friends of mine with 0 issues! I am sorry that you had issues but it sounds to me like yours came without the cable correct or had a factory issue that never got completely fixed. I also ride with other brands and we are always fixing or pulling them out of the trails. I am going on 6 years with Honda sxs and this has been my 6 year experience. Low has been low enough for me with 32's on black trails!!! I am not saying that I think the shift mechanism couldn't be a better setup....

2022 subtrans parts are available now……

 

[Hometeam]

Yes, it's slow, and rides rough, but it's as reliable as a hammer and I have like 3 SxS payments into it, lol.

I can also fix and upgrade it myself when it does break, as well as drive it down any highway in the US.

Always loved the Sami's! My buddy had one and it always made me jealous!!) Nice looking rig!!

 

[Hometeam]

Are they 4 seaters?

No they are 2 seaters. I know they are different shift cables. I was just stating my experience with the Talons!

 

[Montecresto]

To compound the cable issue, they also used a poor design in engagement and from what I've read, didn't heat treat it. 2 times grinding and you're done. Mean while, I've seen Polaris guys have occasional grinding 100s of times without issue.

The actual low range sucks too, it's only slightly lower than high, I think 2nd gear low is the same as 1st high. Why do I need to do 60 in low range?

Replaced it with this, couldn't be happier. View attachment 308862

I just always make sure it’s not flat lined before I stick my foot in it, it’s not a big deal to me. I agree with you on the low range. My X4 goes in for a 25% IGR and front lockers next week….😎👍

 

[hondabob]

My last Samurai had the Rock Lobster gears, FI, and A/C, I had 5 of them. They are really fun and easy to maintain. With over 30,000 miles on my 2019 and 2020 Talons with no breakdowns its a matter of luck and taking good care of them. I drive them hard but don't abuse them. I do all my maintenance work and have my buddy at the Honda shop do my warranty work. The future Talons will get better but I'm already set up for at least another 30,000 miles or more on mine. I would like to see the sub trans improved and also a factory Turbo. I could have used a Turbo yesterday on the last 10 miles of tough uphill sand wash with lots of turns. Now I can relate to my Sand Dune buddies.

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

I've searched this a little, but haven't found a definitive answer.

Machine is basically brand new, just had the 20 hr service done at the dealer, also had them adjust the shift cable. It helped but didn't solve the problem.

Occasionally, after it's in low, I'll get on it and it will pop back out. I feel like the gate for low isn't designed correctly. I saw a post where a guy clearanced the gate further back.

I had this happen at about 500 miles. Took it into the Dealer for the to fix it under warranty. They tried to say that I had shifted it into gear while moving, which wasn't true, but rather the gears were ground when it popped OUT of gear when in low in the snow.

Supposedly not officially a warranty item, but Honda can definitely replace it under warranty. They did this after checking that the cables were adjusted correctly.

Good luck!

ps - sorry, didn't read whole thread in case you already resolved it.

 

[Jaredk]

The updated parts in mine seem like a winner

 

[lifeisgoodsteve]

The updated parts in mine seem like a winner

Yes, I haven’t had any issues after mine was serviced by the dealer.

 

[Montecresto]

Like Killer says don't let it grind. All the belt drive brands are the same with a sub trans. With the engine at idle its important to shift quickly into gear. If it will pop out of gear the gear dogs may be damaged and need to be replaced. The shop manual says the engine needs to be removed to remove the sub trans. I think it can be removed by just lifting the engine up a few inches. It really does suck to have a problem like this especially with a new machine. Hope this info helps and keep us informed with the fix.

The shift cable should be adjusted so its centered in the more narrow neutral gate. When its fully into gear the shift lever should be in the center of the shift gate for Reverse, High, and Low. The shift lever should move forward and aft in the wider gear shift gates. If its preloaded forward you should have the --- on the display showing its not in gear. Never heard of one jumping out of gear but several have had the loud bang as it slams into gear when you apply throttle with the --- on the display showing its not fully into gear.

For testing you can do some shifting with the key on engine not running. Shift it slowly into reverse from park and you may get the --- instead of the R on the display. The shift lever will be loaded forward in the reverse shift gate. This may be easy to do on another Talon. Move the shift lever more toward Neutral then back to the reverse shift gate and it should be centered and wiggle back and forth.

My Talon has over 7,600 miles on it now and it is difficult to shift into low occasionally with a cold engine and it shifts perfect after the engine warms up. If it won't go into low I can move it a couple of inches in high or reverse and it goes into low ok.

So do you know if there is a service update or service recall for this?

 

[Montecresto]

Yes, I haven’t had any issues after mine was serviced by the dealer.

Did Honda cover this?