P700 2020 pioneer 700-2 dual battery set up

[Mudwisel]

In most dual battery set ups the stinger is really just a relay that turns on a fuse block that runs of the batter. For the stinger to be used as true isolator you would not have it activated by key on . Your just running 2 batteries in parallel. With the stinger on in this configuration its like a bigger battery. When you use something like the true isolator between the batteries it will only let voltage go to second battery when primary is fully charged and it does this automatically. If the stinger is used as isolator you would need to activate it with a non keyed switch. You would only charge second battery with stinger activated. With switch off the batteries are isolated from each other but you are not automatically charging second battery. You have to activate the stinger to allow voltage from primary to also charge second

 

[Admin]

 

[NewHere2]

Well I am hoping someone can straighten out my thought pattern here. This would be what I would foresee as a second battery setup. It would allow me to put everything under the seat on the 700 and only have the ignition activated fuse panel for attaching accessories located in the front. That way the front wouldn't be so full of wires and be so much cleaner. I already have my wench installed and feel like I can find a good ground under the front hood for fuse panel.

View attachment 257226

It appears your fuse block is pulling power from the "key on" wire only. So if that "key on" power source is hooked up to the main battery, anything attached to that fuse block is taking power from that same wire and the main battery.

The drawing indicates both batteries would be charging and discharging together at the same time. In theory, you could be using the winch and run both batteries dead. Yes, you could winch for a longer period of time, but you have no protection from being stranded due to a dead battery.

Is that what you want to do?

 

[Rigit]

Thanks for you understanding with me osobad and replying to my posts. I believe through all this thread I am starting to understand a little better. It appears the stinger I have been looking at is a relay based isolator. From a website I came across:

A Relay-based Isolator have no apparent voltage drop while for Diode-based Isolator there will be minimally 0.7V – 1.5V drop across the diode depending on the amount of current pass through.

From same article:

When the engine starter is engaged, the Relay-based Isolator compares the voltage in both main and auxiliary batteries. If the Relay-based Isolator determines that there’s not enough voltage in the primary source to perform an essential function, such as starting an engine, it will open the solenoid and allow current to flow from the auxiliary battery to make up the difference. However, if the drain on the charging system by the auxiliary or main battery bank reduces the system voltage below a certain point, it will disconnect the battery banks from each other, protecting them from excessive drain.

So it does sound kind of like a parallel setup but I believe it does isolate the batteries. I cannot find exactly how the tru isolator works so don't know if it handles the isolation differently or not. From your description it appear it may isolate the batteries a little differently than the explanation of the stinger. The diagram below shows the connection of the Stinger relay isolator even though that is not the exact one I was looking at. From reading and comparing as best I can the tru isolator might be a diode base isolator so it does draw a bit of voltage while the key is off as a relay based requires a switched based lead to kick it off because it doesn't draw any power while off.

 

[Rigit]

It appears your fuse block is pulling power from the "key on" wire only. So if that "key on" power source is hooked up to the main battery, anything attached to that fuse block is taking power from that same wire and the main battery.

The drawing indicates both batteries would be charging and discharging together at the same time. In theory, you could be using the winch and run both batteries dead. Yes, you could winch for a longer period of time, but you have no protection from being stranded due to a dead battery.

Is that what you want to do?

Thanks newhere2. It is not what I want. Thanks for pointing that out. I think I would need to run from the positive of the auxiliary battery to the fuse box. Would that be correct? Then I could use a bus bar or something to distribute the key on power to other accessories. I am not sure how much power the key on utilizes but I would think it would be minimal and the devices would actually be running off the fuse box attached to the positive terminal. I guess the key on would only be to activate the solenoid to close and open circuits? I really wish I knew more about all of this. I am trying to research to find out more but there are just so many smart people on here that have always given great info so it where go to for this stuff.

 

[NewHere2]

Think of it this way.

1.) ( Disclaimer : I haven't seen a Stinger or read up on it) The stinger is only a big heavy duty switch. It can only "isolate" the batteries when it is turned off. To act as a "Relay" it has to be turned on. Not sure about any sensing abilities posted above.

2.) Let's leave the factory battery alone for now. Leave that just for starting and running all the factory stuff.

3.) Draw your auxiliary battery and wire up everything you are installing to it. That would be your winch and fuse block from what I see right now.

4.) Now let's wire the winch. The hot wire from the auxiliary battery to the winch needs to be protected by a heavy duty fuse or circuit breaker. I prefer waterproof marine style, resettable circuit breakers. It should be rated for the maximum draw of the winch (stall point) typically 80-100 Amps. Use 4ga. wire or what the winch manufacturer recommends / supplies. This wire would go to the winch contactor (solenoid in your drawing). Some winches have the contactor built into one end. Then if required, use the same size wire from the contactor to the winch. Same size wire should be used for the negative side as well.

5.) Now lets wire up the accessory fuse block to the auxiliary battery. Guessing you might end up with 4 to 8 different circuits, I'd over build it, try to find a fuse block rated above 40 Amp. and waterproof, Blue Sea products aren't bad. Think I would bring an 8ga wire with a 40 Amp waterproof marine style resettable circuit breaker from the battery to the fuse block. From here each accessory would require wire and fuse size recommended by the manufacturer.

6.) All we have left is to hook the 2 batteries together. I'd use the same size wire as your factory battery uses. Most likely 4ga. or 6ga.. On my 700 I used the TRU Battery Isolator. When I did mine in 2018 it was the best on the market back then. What I like about it : It can pull power from both batteries at the same time. When either battery gets below approximately 12.7 volts, it will break the connection between the 2 batteries. Allowing you to run either one dead, accidentally or on purpose. Then when recharging is started. It will charge one battery up to 13.4 volts before it kicks in and charges the second one. Just easier on the charging system in my opinion. I made a short jumper cable about 8" long to jump across the 2 posts on the TRU Isolator if I need power in an emergency. Like leaving the key on and not running. I also installed a 100 Amp circuit breaker between the 2 batteries to protect that wire also.

7.) I hooked up a separate volt meter to each battery to monitor there voltages.

8.) From here, you can run most accessories. Just use the supplied instructions.

9.) In my opinion, if you install a TRU Battery Isolator or equivalent (If the Stinger has the electronics and works as described in your above post), you should consider installing a 40 Amp relay between the auxiliary battery and your fuse block. The trigger wire for this could be attached with the trigger wire for the Battery Isolator. That way everything would be dead when the key is off, except for the winch. The down side is if you want to run a stereo, you would have to have the power on. Or wire up a bypass.

Others might have a different approach, to each their own. I did not see a need for a Stinger in my set up. I used the factory Honda Auxiliary fuse block for a cleaner look and accomplished the same thing. I run a 10" light bar, 2 side lights, fan, winch, wiper, heater, and turn signals off my 2nd battery. Been working great.

Hope this helps. Lots of knowledgeable folks here, hope more jump in.

 

[Mudwisel]

Thanks for you understanding with me osobad and replying to my posts. I believe through all this thread I am starting to understand a little better. It appears the stinger I have been looking at is a relay based isolator. From a website I came across:

A Relay-based Isolator have no apparent voltage drop while for Diode-based Isolator there will be minimally 0.7V – 1.5V drop across the diode depending on the amount of current pass through.

From same article:

When the engine starter is engaged, the Relay-based Isolator compares the voltage in both main and auxiliary batteries. If the Relay-based Isolator determines that there’s not enough voltage in the primary source to perform an essential function, such as starting an engine, it will open the solenoid and allow current to flow from the auxiliary battery to make up the difference. However, if the drain on the charging system by the auxiliary or main battery bank reduces the system voltage below a certain point, it will disconnect the battery banks from each other, protecting them from excessive drain.

So it does sound kind of like a parallel setup but I believe it does isolate the batteries. I cannot find exactly how the tru isolator works so don't know if it handles the isolation differently or not. From your description it appear it may isolate the batteries a little differently than the explanation of the stinger. The diagram below shows the connection of the Stinger relay isolator even though that is not the exact one I was looking at. From reading and comparing as best I can the tru isolator might be a diode base isolator so it does draw a bit of voltage while the key is off as a relay based requires a switched based lead to kick it off because it doesn't draw any power while off.

View attachment 257291

Not to confuse you but I wanted to be able to use anything wire from my fuse panel without the key. My stinger is activated by a switch that turns on my fuse panel. My fuse panel only runs off my second battery. The primary battery runs only the vehicle electronics. Something I also do that is not in most of these duel battery set ups from what I have seen is that I also have a marine switch. I can turn power of to everything , run the vehicle off battery 1 or battery 2 or both for like heavy winching. If for some reason my primary goes dead I can switch to secondary and run it off that . My accessories excluding winch only run off the secondary battery. I also have dual voltmeter that monitors both batteries. Sounds complicated but it is not. My set up up is not necessary for most I beleive but covers more bases

 

[Rigit]

Y'all have been so awesome through this whole thread. This is what I like about this site. Putting up with a idiot like me to help not only get this done but also the patience to stick with it until I finish beating it to death. I hope posting one more picture will not try your patience to the point of not replying. I had forgotten about the in line fuses too and volt meters. Great idea on the ability to run off second battery if primary goes down. I will still have to insert fuses and other things but this is the general principal of the new design. Not sure how much voltage the switch power utilizes to activate those things.

 

[Rigit]

Also reading the post I made earlier from a relay type isolator it may automatically switch to the auxiliary battery if the main starting battery doesn't have enough power to start the machine:

"When the engine starter is engaged, the Relay-based Isolator compares the voltage in both main and auxiliary batteries. If the Relay-based Isolator determines that there’s not enough voltage in the primary source to perform an essential function, such as starting an engine, it will open the solenoid and allow current to flow from the auxiliary battery to make up the difference. "

 

[NewHere2]

View attachment 257318

The new diagram will work. As it is pictured, your fuse block is hot all the time and only drawing off the auxiliary battery.

 

[NewHere2]

Not to confuse you but I wanted to be able to use anything wire from my fuse panel without the key. My stinger is activated by a switch that turns on my fuse panel. My fuse panel only runs off my second battery. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I also have a marine switch. I can turn power of to everything , run the vehicle off battery 1 or battery 2 or both for like heavy winching. If for some reason my primary goes dead I can switch to secondary and run it off that . My accessories excluding winch only run off the secondary battery. I also have dual voltmeter that monitors both batteries. Sounds complicated but it is not. My set up up is not necessary for most I beleive but covers more bases

osobad, Very good ideas! Just takes a little more time and a few feet of heavy wire. 👍👍👍👍👍

 

[Rigit]

Y'all are awesome. Now I think I understand much better. And if I wanted the fuse box to be switched I would add another relay connected to the power on key supply before the fuse box to achieve that. And is where I see others putting that extra relay in there. I have to say again how awesome everyone is on this site and stuck with it until I saw the light. I will have to sit down now and plan how to mount the second battery.

 

[NewHere2]

Also reading the post I made earlier from a relay type isolator it may automatically switch to the auxiliary battery if the main starting battery doesn't have enough power to start the machine:

"When the engine starter is engaged, the Relay-based Isolator compares the voltage in both main and auxiliary batteries. If the Relay-based Isolator determines that there’s not enough voltage in the primary source to perform an essential function, such as starting an engine, it will open the solenoid and allow current to flow from the auxiliary battery to make up the difference. "

Could you post a link where you are getting this info. Also, a link to the model of Stinger you are looking at.

The statement in it's self is correct. I can't seem to find anything that states Stinger is using or has incorporated this in their products.

 

[IXInaplesIXI]

Yall seem to have everything figured out. I haven't wired my Pioneer yet but this is how I wired my buggy. Nothing special just a crud diagram.

 

[Rigit]

Could you post a link where you are getting this info. Also, a link to the model of Stinger you are looking at.

The statement in it's self is correct. I can't seem to find anything that states Stinger is using or has incorporated this in their products.

I am away from my laptop at the moment nwehere2 but did bookmark that site about a relay isolators and can post that. I guess I am assuming a little bit since they call it a relay isolator. They might be trying to mislead with their naming convention but don't think they would be but it did state that it does isolate the batteries.

 

[Rigit]

I am away from my laptop at the moment nwehere2 but did bookmark that site about a relay isolators and can post that. I guess I am assuming a little bit since they call it a relay isolator. They might be trying to mislead with their naming convention but don't think they would be but it did state that it does isolate the batteries.

Here is a link to stingers site and the one I am looking at. It directly states it is a relay and isolator all in one.

Car Audio Wiring & Accessories

Shop RCA interconnects, speaker, amp wiring harness kits for cars, trucks, jeeps, marine. Simplify your sound system install with car audio wire kits.

stingerelectronics.com

 

[Rigit]

Here is a link to stingers site and the one I am looking at. It directly states it is a relay and isolator all in one.

Car Audio Wiring & Accessories

Shop RCA interconnects, speaker, amp wiring harness kits for cars, trucks, jeeps, marine. Simplify your sound system install with car audio wire kits.

stingerelectronics.com

Here is a link describing the relay isolator

Why Relay-based Isolator is better than Diode-based Isolator for Dual Battery Applications – Voltage Sensitive Relay and Digital Switching by BATTEK System

A Relay-based Isolator have no apparent voltage drop while for Diode-based Isolator there will be minimally 0.7V – 1.5V drop across the diode depending on the amount of current pass through. The higher the current, Read more…

batteksystem.com

 

[Mudwisel]

Y'all have been so awesome through this whole thread. This is what I like about this site. Putting up with a idiot like me to help not only get this done but also the patience to stick with it until I finish beating it to death. I hope posting one more picture will not try your patience to the point of not replying. I had forgotten about the in line fuses too and volt meters. Great idea on the ability to run off second battery if primary goes down. I will still have to insert fuses and other things but this is the general principal of the new design. Not sure how much voltage the switch power utilizes to activate those things.View attachment 257318

If it were me looking at your diagram I would wire the stinger between the secondary battery and fuse panel. You can use keyed power or set up a switch yourself to activate the fuse panel. I prefer a switch just so I can run my accessories without a key.Then put a smart isolator between the 2 batteries The stinger will be trying to charge both batteries when activated even if the primary is low . It is a little harder on charging systems. I beleive I read somewhere they have a short life being used as an isolator. I would just use it as a master switch between secondary and fuse panel. Not right or wrong just my preference

 

[Rigit]

I am waiting for a reply back from Stinger as we speak but a guy down the street from me has a stinger in the same configuration that I show and he also told me it is an isolator but it is indeed a relay isolator just as Stinger describes it in their naming of it. Also as described in earlier threads the relay isolator appears to be a better device to use in a dual battery situation. I am waiting for the reply from Stinger to see if it actually does as in the description of a relay isolator and will automatically use the power from the second battery to add power to the main battery if it does not have enough power to start the engine. I will have to also ask if it will try and charge both batteries at once. That is a good question. I know it will isolate batteries but haven't found how they charge.

 

[NewHere2]

If it were me looking at your diagram I would wire the stinger between the secondary battery and fuse panel. You can use keyed power or set up a switch yourself to activate the fuse panel. I prefer a switch just so I can run my accessories without a key.Then put a smart isolator between the 2 batteries The stinger will be trying to charge both batteries when activated even if the primary is low . It is a little harder on charging systems. I beleive I read somewhere they have a short life being used as an isolator. I would just use it as a master switch between secondary and fuse panel. Not right or wrong just my preference.

Yep, what osobad said is not a bad idea. If you are short on room you can use any 40 Amp or larger relay. Generally most relays are about a 1 1/4 inch cube in size. Just to run that fuse panel. Allowing you to turn it on or off at your discretion with the switch you have already included. Then as he said, look at installing a sensing style (TRU or other brand) isolator between the 2 batteries.

Did you check the " Club Store" here on the forum for your parts and supplies?

I read the info in the links above. I do agree with what is stated. However, I can't find any verification that "Stinger" uses it. Might contact "Stinger" and ask. Anyone on here know for sure??

 

[Mudwisel]

The stinger will isolate the secondary from the primary to prevent the secondary battery load form discharging the primary but when activated it is charging both batteries. If you have a low primary it is still trying to charge your secondary also. With a voltage measuring isolator it is charging the primary first and only charges the secondary when the primary reaches a certain voltage. If when it is charging the secondary and the primary battery drops below a certain voltage it stops charging the secondary and your charging system is only trying to charge your primary. Hope that simplifies things