350 Rancher Engine problems

[JsheII3]

Well fellas, ...

Plan B:

 

[JsheII3]

Interesting couple days. I’m learning a lot. Here goes:

 

[JsheII3]

Currently the wrist pin is seized to the rod. So I’m at a stopping point.

Probably should change that oil...

Anyways. YouTube from the toilet says I gotta make my own wrist pin puller. Bolt, washer, and socket gimmick.

So that’s tomorrow’s project.

 

[HondaTech]

We usually have to knock them out, just a socket and hammer.

But if its seized super bad then the crank is going to need to be replaced. It will never last.

 

[JsheII3]

We usually have to knock them out, just a socket and hammer.

But if its seized super bad then the crank is going to need to be replaced. It will never last.

Thanks. The piston pivots back and forth on the rod. So it’s not frozen.

I didn’t go after it w a hammer very hard.

I’m going to try the homemade puller trick from YouTube.

Hopeful.

 

[NTCPrezJB]

Thanks. The piston pivots back and forth on the rod. So it’s not frozen.

I didn’t go after it w a hammer very hard.

I’m going to try the homemade puller trick from YouTube.

Hopeful.

Good luck sir. Not a fun situation to find yourself in.

 

[HondaTech]

Thanks. The piston pivots back and forth on the rod. So it’s not frozen.

I didn’t go after it w a hammer very hard.

I’m going to try the homemade puller trick from YouTube.

Hopeful.

The piston wont usually seize to the wrist pin, the tight spot is always the rod, since it is usually fed oil and when it doesn't is seizes on wrist pin and that's what makes the piston start melting on the side from pressure and lack of oil.

If you take the wrist pin out and there is any scoring on the rod or pin, the engine will not last without a new crank.

Seeing as how part of the piston skirt is missing as well, that stuff is in the crankcase. So I wouldn't waste time doing a top end with all those chunks of metal down in the engine. It wont last.

 

[SWB]

I have no input on small engines. But, done and rebuilt many of SBC and BBC. If you got metal shavings in engine? Which sounds like you do. It needs a total tear down cleaning and rebuild.

 

[JsheII3]

..

Seeing as how part of the piston skirt is missing as well, that stuff is in the crankcase. So I wouldn't waste time doing a top end with all those chunks of metal down in the engine. It wont last.

What won't last? The engine itself, or the top end rebuild?

I have no input on small engines. But, done and rebuilt many of SBC and BBC. If you got metal shavings in engine? Which sounds like you do. It needs a total tear down cleaning and rebuild.

Is there a way to "wash out" metal from the crank case w/out complete tear down? (Because I've already EXCEEDED my skillset at this point, sadly)

Like could I do multiple oil changes over a short time, including changing the filters often?

 

[SWB]

I would say no. You got metal dust and shaving all through engine. Rods, bearings etc is effected. Everything that gets oil has metal in it. I would do a total rebuild being you have taken it this far. If not, be ready to do it again.

 

[JsheII3]

Uh... Geez Louis... If I have to do anything remotely as complicated as this, that''ll be the end of the line for my 2003 Rancher.
There's no way I could tear it down this far. It's too old and just not worth it.

I'm going to put it back together w/ the new parts I've already bought, do the oil change idea, and hope for the best. But that's not because I don't believe you guys... this one's on me.

Tho, it sounds like I'll be selling a parts machine, soon... UGH

 

[HondaTech]

The large chunk missing in that psiton had to go somewhere, and it didnt get spit out the exhaust.

I'd say youd be lucky if the engine lasted a day with the new top end and all that crap in the bottom end.

This is why I always dissasemble before buying new parts.

 

[JsheII3]

This is why I always disassemble before buying new parts.

Word. It's turning into a science experiment at this point.

 

[SWB]

Can you get a close picture of journal(s) on crankshaft? Or, is it still all together?

 

[snuffnwhisky]

If you are planning to put it back together without splitting the case, be sure to feel the rod on the crankshaft. There really should be no movement up and down and the rod should move smooth on the roller bearing in there. If that doesn't feel tight and smooth you are probably wasting your time unless you replace the crank/rod. If it is tight and smooth, at least fill the motor up with gas a couple of times, shake around and drain. Try to save what you drain out to inspect and repeat till clean. Maybe you will get lucky!

 

[HondaTech]

If you are planning to put it back together without splitting the case, be sure to feel the rod on the crankshaft. There really should be no movement up and down and the rod should move smooth on the roller bearing in there. If that doesn't feel tight and smooth you are probably wasting your time unless you replace the crank/rod. If it is tight and smooth, at least fill the motor up with gas a couple of times, shake around and drain. Try to save what you drain out to inspect and repeat till clean. Maybe you will get lucky!

If the piston is any indication I have no doubt the small end of the rod is smoked as well. Most likely explains his difficulty removing the wrist pin.

 

[Smitty335]

If you are planning to put it back together without splitting the case, be sure to feel the rod on the crankshaft. There really should be no movement up and down and the rod should move smooth on the roller bearing in there. If that doesn't feel tight and smooth you are probably wasting your time unless you replace the crank/rod. If it is tight and smooth, at least fill the motor up with gas a couple of times, shake around and drain. Try to save what you drain out to inspect and repeat till clean. Maybe you will get lucky!

???????? I've always been told not to clean bearings with gas, when I was young and used gas to clean wheel bearings they would go out shortly after and the bearings were fine before I cleaned them with gas, just needed something to do??????????????

 

[JsheII3]

@SWB @HondaTech @snuffnwhisky

Hey now!
Remember that bore scope that @PistonHonda convinced me to buy?

What if... I drain the oil. Look for metal shavings in the filter...
Then go into the motor through the top (I mean it’s just a piston poking up through a giant hole at the moment). And bore scope the heck out of the inside of the motor and see if I can locate this chunk of piston. ???
And look at all the other bits and pieces you tell me to. ???

I don’t know what I’m looking for, but I can make a comprehensive video of the insides.

And we can fix it together!

 

[snuffnwhisky]

???????? I've always been told not to clean bearings with gas, when I was young and used gas to clean wheel bearings they would go out shortly after and the bearings were fine before I cleaned them with gas, just needed something to do??????????????

The case is full of metal and has to be cleaned out. Gas will not hurt bearings. Using the wrong grease, not packing the bearing sufficiently, etc. could cause a wheel bearing to go. Too much grease can also cause higher temps.

 

[Smitty335]

The case is full of metal and has to be cleaned out. Gas will not hurt bearings. Using the wrong grease, not packing the bearing sufficiently, etc. could cause a wheel bearing to go. Too much grease can also cause higher temps.

All I know when I started using solvet to clean races and bearings I haven't bought bearings since other than sealed bearings, learned a trick from a buddy, take a new sealed bearing, remove the seal carefully not to damage it and pack bearing with grease, most sealed bearings don't have much grease in them and reinstall seal. He learned that from the Gas Gas Race factory mechanics that maintained his bikes while at the Six Day Enduro Trials in Spain, good lord he's still fast at 61! I think it's Mystic that makes a water proof grease, it's great for boat trailers, ran it for thousands of miles in my boat trailers, never had a failure, talking about 15 years to Canada and back to NW Arkansas same bearings????????