P1000 3500 vs 4500lb winch

[sheamus]

I notice that a lot of places offer a 3500lb winch and then the 4500lb or 5000lb is the upgrade. For those that have had a 3500lb winch, what sort of situations have you run into where it is underpowered? If the machine is 1700lbs, then I feel like even a 3500lb winch would have the ability to pull it apart.

 

[Admin]

 

[toddvdh]

I have a 5000 lb on my pioneer 1000-5 and a 3,500 on my talon.

The 3,500lb winch doesn't feel underpowered most of the time. When buried in really deep mud it works really hard, but gets me out. It never feels "overpowered" though.

That being said, the winch on the talon is more of an emergency tool. It will get me out of a jam. The winch on the pioneer is used for working and recovery way more often. You can tell it has a ton more power, and it's way safer imo to have extra winch capacity. And less stress on the winch itself.

What are you using it for? If it's going to be used quite a bit, I would recommend the bigger winch. If it is only for emergencies once or twice a year, then the smaller one would be fine.

 

[Pilotadam]

Please be aware that winch ratings are based on how many layers of line are on the drum. The stated rating is for the first layer of line. Then drops for each additional layer. For example my 5500lb winch drips to 3400lbs when there are 4 wraps of line on the drum. So if you relate that to a 3500lb winch you might be at a 1000lbs with 4 wraps. The other thing to look at is how many Amps the winch draws. A 3500lb winch will draw higher Amps to do the same work as a 5500lb winch. I have attached two Warn charts for a 3500l and a 5500lb for example of the difference in amp draw and line strength. My opinion is go big or go home. I would rather have to my winch and not need it vs having two small not getting out. My old Teryx several times we had to double line it, and it had a 3500lb winch.

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Hondasxs]

You need to research spool count vs actual pull ratings.
A 3500 winch will pull 1/2 its rate at full spool. Each layer out adds [x] pounds and only the first layer offers the full 3500lbs pull force with a strong battery.

Of course you can add snatch blocks and what not to offset.

Like said above. Your use case will determine if 3500 is acceptable or not.

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[sheamus]

I would hope to never use it. I would love to, but I don't see me having time ride the trails that would require it's use on a regular basis. But murphy's law says that if I didn't have a winch, I would get stuck 20 miles from home, and have to walk. It sounds like a 3500lb winch would be fine, but 4500 would add peace of mind, though likely unnecessary unless I am stuck in some really goop. It is only $100 difference if I do the install myself, I have a feeling dealer would gouge me for the upgrade. I'll see when it comes time to actually pickup the pioneer if the 2022's ever show up.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[CumminsPusher]

It does matter the type of winch being used also.
I’ve always went 4500 but been rethinking that as of late. a decent snatch block helps drastically and is usually much easier on everything. Will probably start going to 3500 and a snatch block.

 

[Hondasxs]

It does matter the type of winch being used also.
I’ve always went 4500 but been rethinking that as of late. a decent snatch block helps drastically and is usually much easier on everything. Will probably start going to 3500 and a snatch block.

LOL... You need a 8k

 

[sheamus]

I didn't know what a snatch block was, but after finding an image, it would basically double winch power by doubling up rope right. Finally after 20 years, that Statics & Dynamics class I took in first-year pays off.

 

[CID]

I didn't know what a snatch block was, but after finding an image, it would basically double winch power by doubling up rope right. Finally after 20 years, that Statics & Dynamics class I took in first-year pays off.

Yes, it 'doubles' your capacity, minus friction but it also cuts your 'reach' in half. Not a problem in the forest but may be a big deal in the desert.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

1700# machine, 400# accessories, 2 people = 2500#. I've stalled a 4k winch several times. 2X weight is pretty common to spec a winch.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Yes, it 'doubles' your capacity, minus friction but it also cuts your 'reach' in half. Not a problem in the forest but may be a big deal in the desert.

Been keeping old rope in the machine and that helps a bit

 

[Remington]

It sounds like a 3500lb winch would be fine

Yup!

 

[P1K5Dave]

I've got a 5k, and I carry an extra 50' synthetic line (for replacement in case I break one, extra reach if needed) plus two 20' straps.

I pulled a polaris out of a long run last Summer. It took most of my line, both of my straps, and one of my buddy's straps to get to him.

Anyway, whichever weight you run, go synthetic. Cable sucks.

 

[CumminsPusher]

LOL... You need a 8k

I’ve started adulting some lol. Broken way less and had better luck after spending time to snatch it out and look for better ways for an anchor point. Slowed down for recovery a bit and machine seems to appreciate it.
My buddy is real patient and methodical about getting things out and been learning off of that, works better then my old caveman efforts did.

 

[JMynes]

I miss my M-88 Tank Recovery Vehicle. 45 ton single line winch with a 90 ton capacity snatch block. Never met a stuck tank I couldn’t recover.

 

[Scoop]

I didn't know what a snatch block was,

That's when your buddy makes a move on a girl that you really liked and had planned on asking out.

Seriously ... the few dollars you save by going with a 3500 instead of a 4500 (or larger) aren't going to help you extract your bike when you get yourself into a really serious jam.

 

[ToddACimer]

Just upgraded. I always liked my Terra45, lots of pulling power and low power consumption. It's now mounted in the back. Up front I'm looking forward to trying the new Traveller 6k, it looks like a beast on the Warn front bumper

 

[StewB]

I didn't know what a snatch block was, but after finding an image, it would basically double winch power by doubling up rope right. Finally after 20 years, that Statics & Dynamics class I took in first-year pays off.

Sheamus,
Just had a winch issue today, that I'll post separately. I think a 3,000# winch is the bare minimum for a side by side. I've had 3,500# and 4,500# winches on mine. My primary use is to lift my snow plow blade. In the rare, but very significant, circumstances where I've had to winch myself or some one else, I never suffered for power, it was always that my machine didn't have enough weight to pull (for example) the jeep out of the ravine.
If you stay over 3,000# at a minimum, I think you'll be fine. At the same time, if it's just a few shekels to get a higher pull capacity, then I think its money well spent.
If the good lord has blessed you with a Tractor Supply nearby, their 10,000# snatch blocks are a great deal.
And I'm still waiting for my statistics class to pay off.
Over.

 

[Robobrainiac]

I purchased a champion 3500lb with synthetic rope on Amazon. I said the same thing to myself, "the machine only weighs 1700lbs it should be fine". I was excited and told a buddy of mine what I had done. His response was that I had not taken into account equipment I could be hauling and the weight of mud on the machine. That I would most likely be dragging it when it gets stuck because that seems to be the only time a pioneer needs help is when it bottoms out. The 1 time I had to use it I bottomed myself out in a mud hole. The length of the pit was approximately 10 yards long and I made it to the middle. The nearest tree was about 30ft away. I winched up to it and hit the remote and the thing torqued itself down and stopped moving. The pioneer went no where. I revved the crap out of the machine hoping to help the winch to no avail. So I got my snatch block out and set everything up and with the snatch block I could barely move the machine while spinning the tires. We ended up using logs and rocks we found on the trail to wedge under the tires to help the machine get traction and move along. Even with the snatch block it did not work very well. I was VERY disappointed. My next winch will be from the HondaSxS store. A nice big 5000lb. I really want to get a bumper at the same time tho and do both together. I have a couple bumper bolts I know will need to be retapped. The second time I used the winch was at Ride Royal Blue. We were coming up a very steep wall on the trail. The machine felt as if it was going to roll backwards. My wife tried to spot me and when the machine nose went up and came back down we decided to winch onto a tree to keep the nose down. I used 2 30ft straps to lengthen the line enough to reach the nearest tree. The winch did OK but listening to it pull made it seems so weak.

 

[GROR]

Yes, it 'doubles' your capacity, minus friction but it also cuts your 'reach' in half. Not a problem in the forest but may be a big deal in the desert.

A snatch block, "pulley" is a force multiplier.

#1 rule for using a snatch block (pulley)--- if the snatch block (pulley) is not moving you gain no mechanical advantage only a change of direction.
When a winch cable is run from the winch and doubled at the anchor with a snatch block, the force on the anchor is doubled, there is no mechanical advantage. (a1700# SXS = 3400# of force on the anchor). there is actually less force on the anchor just using a single line.

When a winch cable is doubled at another SXS ---the pulley is moving in the system and the mechanical advantage is doubled, the snatch block doubles the winches pulling power.

There are allot of force variables that I left out of this..lol