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P700 700 camshaft issue

Discussion in 'Pioneer 700 Shop Talk' started by Sodhead, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. Sodhead

    Sodhead New Member
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    Howdy. Been reading threads regarding the Pioneer 700 camshaft issue, the issue where the cam lobes round off. I suspect I have this issue with my 700 and so I will be replacing my cam. Question is - is this something that has been resolved?? My understanding, based on the other posts about it, is that it was some kind of 'issue', common with our machines (that the cam lobes wear). I mean I'd hate to go through the work to replace the cam later to find out I should have used some 'upgraded' version of the cam or something, and end up in this same boat again down the road. Anyone have experience with this situation that could add some detail? Thanks much all
     
  2. Alan_Vander

    Alan_Vander Well-Known Member

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    @DG Rider @Farmer im sure there are a few more that will chime in. but i believe it was a batch problem but not sure if its ever been narrowed down cause different years have had them. but as far as i know its just buy a cam. no one makes aftermarket stuff for these bikes.

    Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
     
  3. Farmer

    Farmer Well-Known Member
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    When they did my 2014 in Freeport, IL I was told that it was getting a 2015 part number cam. I wanna say it happened in 2017 and I've only put a couple hundred miles on since. AS far as reassurance....I was given none as the mechanic who had seen many and was keeping spares in stock, had no clue what was causing it other than claiming it tended to be machines that did a lot of short trips/starting stopping. AKA farm vehicles. He said at the time that there was an aftermarket cam to try if the 2015# cam failed. Mine sits alot here in northern IL since there are really no places for longer rides. I'm basiclly afraid to use it around the farm/yard for fear of losing another cam and no turf mode. Yeah, I use it some but not as much as I'd like. Can't convince the wife to upgrade so the saga continues. I need to just get over it and use the darn thing. If it eats this one so be it. Don't get me wrong though... percentage wise... these cam issues are few and far between and the 700 tends to be a tough SOB for most people. There are 700's with over 10k miles out there. I just wish Honda would have nailed down/announced what exactly was wrong so that we can quit worrying about it. This cam/engine were the same in the Big Red and one model of 4 wheeler. All with a few spotty random cam problems. Someone else correct me if I'm wrong but I think the issue has been 2016 models or older if that helps.
     
    #3 Farmer, Nov 12, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2019
  4. HondaTech

    HondaTech Working For Mother Honda!!
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    This has been an issue on the 700 series engine from the 650 to the Pioneer 700.

    I've personally never seen a Pioneer with the problem, but I've seen enough Big Reds and Rincons that I can diagnose the problem by ear now.

    I've never seen a consistent "reason" for the problem, its inconsistent with mileage, usage, or even neglect.
     
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  5. Sodhead

    Sodhead New Member
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    Thanks guys. Interestingly enough, my use case matches Farmers, daily use around the farm, frequent short runs. I've owned since new in 2014, never ran hard and always maintained. Definitely frustrating.
    HondaTech, can you describe the symptom (running behavior) of the worn cam? As I said I suspect that's my issue, but I'm basing that on the amount of rocker movement I see when rolling the engine over with the valve caps off. I don't have a dial indicator on there, but my sense is it seems to not be moving as much as I'd expect. Of course I'll mic the cam when I get it out, just curious ia all how you've seen them run. Mine acts like a 'Rev limiter" is kicking in beyond about half throttle, spitting and sputtering and unable to rev up.

    Thanks again guys.
     
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  6. JeremieBaker

    JeremieBaker President of #NTC
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    Your description of rev limiter/spit/sputter definitely makes it sound like it is the dreaded 700 cam issue to me. I don't have one, but just sounds similar to others on here that have ended up having to replace the cam. Sorry man, I hate to hear it.
     
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  7. Sodhead

    Sodhead New Member
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    Looking at Honda P/Ns, it appears the 2014 cam is a different part number from '15 and up machines (14100-HL1-A00 for the '14 cam, and 14100-HL3-A40 for '15-'19 cam). Looks like just about every other part on those OEM parts fisch pages are common part numbers from '14 and up, i.e. cam buckets, cam holder, pushrods, rockers, valves, etc., are all exact same Honda P/Ns from '14 on. Based on that, it would seem Honda made some change to the cam after the '14.. I think i will tyake a chance and order the '15 and up P/N to put in mine, just in case. Seems like thats what they may have done in Farmer's case.

    It will be a few weeks until i get to this but I'll report back the outcome. Thanks again for everything fellas, sure helps to be able to bounce stuff off of who has experience with a particular topic!
     
  8. HondaTech

    HondaTech Working For Mother Honda!!
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    I would propose that the changes are due to emissions maybe, since that was the year they added the cat and 02 sensor. But it could be something else as well.
     
  9. Sodhead

    Sodhead New Member
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    Ah yeah good point regarding the emissions changes.. So yeah maybe a change in grind profile for that. Maybe i will just order both cams and see what i see upon close inspection :)
     
  10. HondaTech

    HondaTech Working For Mother Honda!!
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    I'll do some digging in the specs and see if lobe height or timing is different.
     
  11. DG Rider

    DG Rider Well-Known Member
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    I think you're right about the emissions thing. Someone posted FSM pages on another subject and I caught a glimpse of the cam specs. They were different '15 and up (don't remember what).
     
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  12. Farmer

    Farmer Well-Known Member
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    Didn't they add a second spark plug along with the emissions stuff in '15?
     
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  13. DG Rider

    DG Rider Well-Known Member
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    Yes.
     
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  14. Sodhead

    Sodhead New Member
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    Just to close this one out - Well I chickened out and just ordered a 2014 P/N cam. I got it swapped out Saturday. Fixed the issue and runs great again. Looks like the intake lobe on the original cam was about 50% ground away, ex lobe had some wear as well. Guess we'll see if it happens again.. It has about 1500miles/380hours on it now, hopefully I'm not replacing another cam @ ~3000mi/760hrs.

    Thanks again guys. I would have never thought to check the cam when I started troubleshooting this issue. I've had many Honda ATVS and dirtbikes over the years with miles/hours on them way way more than this Pioneer, and many of those I will admit to abusing pretty hard lol. Never ground off a cam off like this. Heck I currently have an old Rubicon 500 I've owned since 2003, has over 9000 hours on it, I use daily around the farm same as the Pioneer, ticks and smokes a little and I'm sure has low compression but still runs great and keeps on going lol. Sure wouldn't have have expected this out of the Pioneer. Oh well, glad to have it fixed. ...even if it is just for now.

    Have great holidays all! :)
     
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  15. Farmer

    Farmer Well-Known Member
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    Awesome! Glad you got it going. Good luck and let us know how she ends up!
     
    Mudwing likes this.

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