P700 Are these plugs fouled (pics)

[Slackjaw]

Back story:

P700 - EPS recall done + fuel pump. Now it dies when driving.

Got my 19' 700 back from dealership yesterday. It stalled twice at idle in the dealership driveway. EPS Light came on both times. Could not get it to die a third time, EPS Light was off on restart. Against my better judgement, I brought it home. It died 5 times in 3 miles, varying RPM/SPEED...

hondasxs.com

This plug was installed at the dealership about 5 gallons of fuel ago. Backstory in link above. The machine is stalling again, alot. Stalled 4 times just loading it on the trailer.

It ran fine for the 5 gallons of gas with new plugs, then it didn't. I pulled the bottom plug to get a picture for record. It's a NGK CPR8EB 9.
Previous posts spec the NGK CPR6EB 9.
Not sure if this is a problem.

Anyway, I don't idle the machine much at all.
5 mins or so on cold mornings. I drive the machine minimum of 3 miles every time it's started. Usually at 3/4 throttle since I live on a 2 Mile gravel road. The machine has about 4-5 tanks of fuel through it since bought new.
(2019).
I'm looking for ideas on what could be causing this issue.

I Always use fresh non ethanol high test fuel.
I use the same fuel in all my saws and small engines with zero issues. (Same fuel can).

 

[CID]

First off, I'm new to SxSs but with today's fuels, plugs burn almost white. If that's also true with SxSs it looks like you're burning way too rich. Normally, that's caused by short trips without warm ups but that's not your problem.

Semantics - a fouled plug won't fire so you could hook up the plug wire and ground the plug, crank the engine over and see if you have spark. No spark, fouled. Even if they spark they still shouldn't be black.

 

[CID]

To add - I was assuming the factory spec'd plug. Since I'm not a Honda engineer, I insist on using factory spec'd plugs in any engine. If not factory spec, your plugs could be too cold.

 

[Mudwing]

Back story:

P700 - EPS recall done + fuel pump. Now it dies when driving.

Got my 19' 700 back from dealership yesterday. It stalled twice at idle in the dealership driveway. EPS Light came on both times. Could not get it to die a third time, EPS Light was off on restart. Against my better judgement, I brought it home. It died 5 times in 3 miles, varying RPM/SPEED...

hondasxs.com

This plug was installed at the dealership about 5 gallons of fuel ago. Backstory in link above. The machine is stalling again, alot. Stalled 4 times just loading it on the trailer.

It ran fine for the 5 gallons of gas with new plugs, then it didn't. I pulled the bottom plug to get a picture for record. It's a NGK CPR8EB 9.
Previous posts spec the NGK CPR6EB 9.
Not sure if this is a problem.

Anyway, I don't idle the machine much at all.
5 mins or so on cold mornings. I drive the machine minimum of 3 miles every time it's started. Usually at 3/4 throttle since I live on a 2 Mile gravel road. The machine has about 4-5 tanks of fuel through it since bought new.
(2019).
I'm looking for ideas on what could be causing this issue.

I Always use fresh non ethanol high test fuel.
I use the same fuel in all my saws and small engines with zero issues. (Same fuel can).

View attachment 239597View attachment 239598View attachment 239599

My plugs looked like that but not as bad. It was still running good so I just replaced them. I figured because of the two plugs for one cylinder. If you’re questioning plugs just change them. I’m surprised the dealer can’t figure it out. 😉

 

[Russ989]

My plugs looked like that but not as bad. It was still running good so I just replaced them. I figured because of the two plugs for one cylinder. If you’re questioning plugs just change them. I’m surprised the dealer can’t figure it out. 😉

Those plugs aren’t cheap. Last I looked they were about $30 or so each.

 

[Mudwing]

Those plugs aren’t cheap. Last I looked they were about $30 or so each.

I changed mine twice already. Here’s what I pay. I should become a vendor. 🤣😎

 

[Russ989]

I changed mine twice already. Here’s what I pay. I should become a vendor. 🤣😎 View attachment 239611

Everything’s higher on a 1000! Lol

 

[Mudwing]

Everything’s higher on a 1000! Lol

🤣

 

[BigMac]

Looks to rich. I believe your gap is much to wide. Should be in manual. Need feeler gage or about same as paper match book cover. To wide gap cause hard to start.

Suggest you call them and find out what’s up. They should not told you it was ready. I believe you have real cause to request refund if not to late.

I would look hard for another dealership to work on it.

 

[Mopower58]

Plug definitely looks rich,as @BigMac said double check the gap, too much gap will retard the timing. I would try 87 octane non ethanol. It would lean it up over using premium

 

[LarryAmboy]

Gap is spaced at 0.036”

You can find theme everywhere for $10 or less


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DG Rider]

From what I've seen posted on FB, and on my own machine (which got new plugs a few weeks ago), the bottom plug always looks carbon'd up like that.

 

[Mudwing]

From what I've seen posted on FB, and on my own machine (which got new plugs a few weeks ago), the bottom plug always looks carbon'd up like that.

You’re right my lower plug was dirty. 😎

 

[DG Rider]

Mine:

They aren't too expensive. The 1000's plugs are iridium, which is why they are $$$. These are just regular old plugs.

 

[DG Rider]

According to NGK's Chart, 8 is a colder plug than 6, so it would be more prone to fouling.

 

[BigMac]

My plugs looked like that but not as bad. It was still running good so I just replaced them. I figured because of the two plugs for one cylinder. If you’re questioning plugs just change them. I’m surprised the dealer can’t figure it out. 😉

NGK 5958 CPR6EB-9 Nickel Spark Plug

$6.86 NGK 5958 CPR6EB-9 Spark Plug - Same Day Shipping. Free Returns. PayPal Accepted. Secure Online Ordering. Est. 1969.

www.ngk.com

 

[HondaTech]

The first thing I'd try would the correct heat range plug, it appears they've put in "8" instead of the recommended "6"

NGK plugs are colder heat range the higher the number, so your 2 steps colder than the recommended plug. If that doesn't eliminate the fouling issue then maybe there is another issue or the machine isn't getting hot enough.

 

[Slackjaw]

Thanks @HondaTech
I opened/reopened the ticket with Honda.
I may use a different dealership. My confidence in the local one is very low.
It's strange that they would install a colder plug, especially since the original set was fouled badly according to them.
I'm very curious if me running only hi test premium non ethanol is causing this issue.
It would really suck, logistic wise, to keep crappy low octane fuel on hand just for this bike. The issue started immediately after they installed the new (recall) fuel pump so my money is on that job being the root cause.

According to them, all they did was swap the plugs. It's run ok for approximately a tank of fuel, now it's stalls out almost immediately after putting in gear and giving fuel. I get about 4 seconds of acceleration before it dies. No sputtering, it just stalls out like a kill switch was pushed.

I'm REALLY glad we didn't take that trip to the ATV park. That would have been a disaster to break down on the trail, in the winter.
My GF would have freaked out.

 

[CID]

Thanks @HondaTech
I opened/reopened the ticket with Honda.
I may use a different dealership. My confidence in the local one is very low.
It's strange that they would install a colder plug, especially since the original set was fouled badly according to them.
I'm very curious if me running only hi test premium non ethanol is causing this issue.

It's possible, premium has a slower burn rate than a lower octane. Running a higher octane than the engine needs is flushing money down the drain. Make the dealer install spec plugs - they're idiots for that reason alone.

fwiw: since the 700 seems to have one plug that burns blacker than the other, I'd try a one step hotter plug in that location. This is because I'm a closet motorhead, so proceed at your own risk.

 

[Diyguy]

Stock OEM plugs. Octane reccomended by the manual. I have done this on every motor I have owned without issue.