P500 Beating a Dead Horse?

JACKAL

JACKAL

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Dammit Trigger! Now I gotta get my 2cents in.;) The Honda propaganda brags about IRS- Independent Rear Suspension. If you ever watch a P5 going over rough terrain from the back, the rear suspension (stock) barely moves, (or the front for that matter) and when going through ruts, or over big obstacles you will often see the corner to corner teetering act with one wheel on two corners in the air- some of you have seen my videos in the suspension thread demonstrating that one- because the machine is ridiculously over-sprung to begin with- unless loaded very heavy, like stupid heavy- I had 700+ lbs on mine, and still couldn't compress the suspension to get all four wheels on the ground during one of those 'teetering' events- with the rsb removed!. So, what the h** is the point of IRS if it never IRS's to begin with, and then adding an additional, ridiculously over sized torsion spring (rsb) that ties the two sides of the rear suspension together virtually guaranteeing that it will never move independently like it is supposed to? Phew! glad i got that off my chest!:)

Pretty simple to answer really. Attorneys, liability over stability (or lack thereof at speed) Honda learned from their ATC experience on 3 wheelers you just can't expect people to drive responsibly according to the terrain, and when they get hurt it sure wasn't their fault they were drinking and putting their foot down when it tipped. Same issue Kawasaki went through with Mule lawsuits, nothing terribly wrong with the machine the design flaw was sitting between the seat and steering wheel.

So yes in low speed situations having greater articulation is awesome, but speed it up and body roll can be unnerving to the novice. The problem the engineers have to deal with is age requirements instead of IQ and experience requirements, then the attorneys really throw in the tarantulas for a good design.
 
JWB

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Pretty simple to answer really. Attorneys, liability over stability (or lack thereof at speed) Honda learned from their ATC experience on 3 wheelers you just can't expect people to drive responsibly according to the terrain, and when they get hurt it sure wasn't their fault they were drinking and putting their foot down when it tipped. Same issue Kawasaki went through with Mule lawsuits, nothing terribly wrong with the machine the design flaw was sitting between the seat and steering wheel.

So yes in low speed situations having greater articulation is awesome, but speed it up and body roll can be unnerving to the novice. The problem the engineers have to deal with is age requirements instead of IQ and experience requirements, then the attorneys really throw in the tarantulas for a good design.
Ain't that the truth! But why bother with the expense of Independent suspension at all if it can't be allowed to operate independently? The question is rhetorical. I guess Polaris, Yamaha, Arctic Cat, BRP , Kubota, John Deer, just have crappy attorneys..... and better suspension.
 
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Mudder

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Just removed the small connectors from sway bar and left everything in place for a try. Strange looking four purple dots joint,.. what's up with that? Seems like no need to tie the torsion bar to anything for now, Right? Mainly low speed rocky trail use for this old guy.
 
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rocmar

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Just removed the small connectors from sway bar and left everything in place for a try. Strange looking four purple dots joint,.. what's up with that? Seems like no need to tie the torsion bar to anything for now, Right? Mainly low speed rocky trail use for this old guy.
1/4" round bar..connected to those purple dots..
is where I cut mine...with saw/ saw....
no wheel removal..no take it apart..less than 1 min
...done
 
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trigger

trigger

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1/4" round bar..connected to those purple dots..
is where I cut mine...with saw/ saw....
no wheel removal..no take it apart..less than 1 min
...done

Thought you hooked it back up and planned on keeping it? I zip tied mine just so it wouldn't bang around even though it fits pretty snug in those rubber bushings anyway.
 
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rocmar

rocmar

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Thought you hooked it back up and planned on keeping it? I zip tied mine just so it wouldn't bang around even though it fits pretty snug in those rubber bushings anyway.
The wide stance..of 58"..& my change in riding
area...I cut um..crawling these big rocks...
Hopefully maybe..some Big Tread light tires...
Cero's just a all terrain good tire..but needing
Some grip...
Took Longer to get out Saw/Saw ...
than to cut..no removal..of nothing..
 
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rocmar

rocmar

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Thought you hooked it back up and planned on keeping it? I zip tied mine just so it wouldn't bang around even though it fits pretty snug in those rubber bushings anyway.
Took it off..riding long even trails..with turns at 25 mph..
was butt pucker...so wasn't a big fan..
2 wheeled...to many times..
 
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Gator

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I took mine off today finally... yep it's different... going to muddy bottoms in sarepta Louisiana on the 26th. Will review my opinion at that ride.
Hey did you make it to Muddy Bottoms? I drive by therer every week but I've never actually been. I like to ride trails and don't care for the mud wallows. Does it have some good trails?
 
William

William

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Hey did you make it to Muddy Bottoms? I drive by therer every week but I've never actually been. I like to ride trails and don't care for the mud wallows. Does it have some good trails?
From what I saw it's more of a mud park. The only open trails are dirt roads. There are some bad holes there!
 
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