Can Am Defender

[Crow_Hunter]

Has anyone here driven one?

How does it compare to the Pioneer 1000?

It seems like my uses may potentially be leaning towards more utility functionality that I originally thought. I have read/heard some good things about the Defender but actual use videos on Youtube are pretty sparse right now.

That could be because everyone who has one isn't bothering filming it or it could be that no one actually is buying them and using them.

 

[Admin]

 

[hondabob]

The Defender raised the bar on a 3 year warranty and 1st service. The belt drive air intake is on the left side, the air box intake is on the right side up under the bed. Not A Good Location. They have the 1st service at 1,800 miles or 200 hours. The oil has to have a high end additive package with magnetic drain plugs. The Defender has the same hp as the Pioneer.

 

[Dasmoeturhead]

I'll stay either the Pioneer.

 

[500]

Has anyone here driven one?

How does it compare to the Pioneer 1000?

It seems like my uses may potentially be leaning towards more utility functionality that I originally thought. I have read/heard some good things about the Defender but actual use videos on Youtube are pretty sparse right now.

That could be because everyone who has one isn't bothering filming it or it could be that no one actually is buying them and using them.

Looked at it as well as the Mule PRO FXT.
Both seem solid and ride smooth. I cannot get over the quality issue some have had with their CanAms though - just a mental block (however they do abuse them like RZR owners). The Mule PRO is built like a tank. Both seem quiet. Defender had better "features/bells and whistles." Mule seems like it has 1/2 ton running gear - massive tie rods, CV axles, etc.
Man, there are just so many choices LOL. This process never ends!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Looked at it as well as the Mule PRO FXT.
Both seem solid and ride smooth. I cannot get over the quality issue some have had with their CanAms though - just a mental block (however they do abuse them like RZR owners). The Mule PRO is built like a tank. Both seem quiet. Defender had better "features/bells and whistles." Mule seems like it has 1/2 ton running gear - massive tie rods, CV axles, etc.
Man, there are just so many choices LOL. This process never ends!

I like the Mule Pro specs, just sooooo loooong. I think I would have problems fitting it on my 12 ft trailer safely. I don't think I could get the weight over my axles and I don't like that it doesn't have a locking front diff.

I still haven't test driven either the Defender or the Mule Pro. Might get to this week or this weekend depending on what my wife has on the agenda.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

The Defender raised the bar on a 3 year warranty and 1st service. The belt drive air intake is on the left side, the air box intake is on the right side up under the bed. Not A Good Location. They have the 1st service at 1,800 miles or 200 hours. The oil has to have a high end additive package with magnetic drain plugs. The Defender has the same hp as the Pioneer.

Thank you for your response. I really value your input. I don't know anyone that even owns a Can Am anything so I am a little hesitant to go that route. I also don't have a good feeling about the dealer. While he is close to my house than any of them, he only has 2 people in his service department and I know I won't get as good of a deal there.

Do you have any other worries about the Defender?

 

[hondabob]

My Buddies have had a few problems with the Commander and Maverick but not as many problems as with Polaris. I had a Ranger 900, RZR 570, and RZR 900 all with design and assembly problems. Belt drive is a deal breaker for me now that we have choices. Honda may announce their 2017 model line up next month, hope they have sport models and bucket seat models for the Pioneer's.

 

[Eltobgi]

Just reading your posts and am sitting here thinking if Honda unveils a sport model what they would call it? It wouldn't be a Pioneer, but the name would have to be as powerful.

 

[ButchersHook]

Has anyone here driven one?

How does it compare to the Pioneer 1000?

It seems like my uses may potentially be leaning towards more utility functionality that I originally thought. I have read/heard some good things about the Defender but actual use videos on Youtube are pretty sparse right now.

That could be because everyone who has one isn't bothering filming it or it could be that no one actually is buying them and using them.

Have you checked out the Defender forums?? Thats probably a good place to start. This being a Pioneer forum I will give you a proper answer to your question: It doesnt compare to a Pioneer. Its a CVT belt driven POS....cheaply built with a cheap feeling. BUT, they give you 3 yrs of fighting to get that damn part fixed under warranty. I rode with 2016 Ranger XP's this weekend, WOW! people actually buy these things? The display looks like an Atari 2600 screen, the shifter feels like three on the tree. Piss poor quality all around.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Have you checked out the Defender forums?? Thats probably a good place to start. This being a Pioneer forum I will give you a proper answer to your question: It doesnt compare to a Pioneer. Its a CVT belt driven POS....cheaply built with a cheap feeling. BUT, they give you 3 yrs of fighting to get that damn part fixed under warranty. I rode with 2016 Ranger XP's this weekend, WOW! people actually buy these things? The display looks like an Atari 2600 screen, the shifter feels like three on the tree. Piss poor quality all around.

I haven't even been able to find a Defender Forum.

Just a general discussion "add on" to the Commander forums. No real action going on there. Just people posting some, I got one posts but nothing else.

That was part of my concern. No one is talking about it or posting videos on Youtube other than that one poor guy who seems to think that tires should be a warranty item.

That either means they are GREAT, no one is riding them or they are so bad people are embarrassed to post about them. I did have a discussion about it with Doug at ATVTV (great guy by the way) and he is doing a long term test. He likes it so far.

I have read horror stories about fighting with Can Am over warranty and I am a little suspicious of that Criscolok front differential.

 

[hondabob]

Usually most all belt drive problems are not covered under warranty. If you are kind to a belt drive some will go over 8,000 miles, some need to be replaced every 4,000 to 5,000 miles. Some Polaris models will last 200 to 300 miles with hard sand hill WOT use. The Polaris owners manual on some models has you cleaning it out often and that really sucks. The one thing a belt drive without a wet clutch will do is putt along at 1 mph without any damage. Not many owners would need to do that but with huge mud tires it may be a good choice. The down side is the belt would need replacing more often. I would buy the Defender way before I would buy a Polaris Ranger.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Usually most all belt drive problems are not covered under warranty. If you are kind to a belt drive some will go over 8,000 miles, some need to be replaced every 4,000 to 5,000 miles. Some Polaris models will last 200 to 300 miles with hard sand hill WOT use. The Polaris owners manual on some models has you cleaning it out often and that really sucks. The one thing a belt drive without a wet clutch will do is putt along at 1 mph without any damage. Not many owners would need to do that but with huge mud tires it may be a good choice. The down side is the belt would need replacing more often. I would buy the Defender way before I would buy a Polaris Ranger.

Thank you!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Well, I just got back from test driving a Can Am Defender XT 10 at my local Can Am dealer.

I am not the happiest with my Pioneer 1000 5D so I decided to explore some other options.

For the TL;DR crowd:

I won't be trading my Pioneer 1000 in on a Defender.

For the more detail oriented crowd, my "review".

I took a Camo Defender XT 10 on an obstacle course test drive a few minutes ago. I drove it for a little over half an hour through a newly revised small obstacle course. I was actually the first person to ever drive on it since the changes. Nothing major just bumps and some articulation.

Observations:

-The seat was incredible. I really, really, wish the Pioneer 1000 came with this seat. Wow it was nice. Best part of the machine.

-Very quiet, much quieter driveline than the Pioneer, no contest here

-It was nice to have a constant acceleration and not have it shift into 2nd gear and jerk you and then immediately jerk you back when you let off the throttle or the scream of the RPMs when you hold it in 1st gear to avoid the shift

-The steering was much lighter than the Pioneer 1000 but it is also a lighter machine by 400+ lbs

-It was nice to just push a button and have the driving mode change instead of manually shifting and waiting and wondering. The change was also much quieter, no loud thunks and clunks

-The extra storage in the cab was very nice, there were places everywhere to put things, not like just a small glove box

-It was very easy to get to all the things you need to check under the bed

-There was no hot air blowing into your face through the shifter opening, it had rubber flanges on both sides of the channel which overlapped and blocked the opening and should be something fairly easy to add to the Pioneer.

-The gauge cluster was much nicer than the little LCD screen on the Pioneer

-The P, N, R, L, H range shifter was very, very hard to shift. Think parked on a hill in the Pioneer 1000 hard but on flat ground. When the guy brought it out to me to drive, he couldn't get it to shift into park so he just left it in Neutral for me to get in...

-The shift knob was all plastic and very, very cheap feeling. It would deform/bend in your hands trying to shift

-The machine got very hot, engine temp wise during my use. It was only 2 blocks away from the overheat warning and I was only driving around slow. The Pioneer never seems to change after warming up.

-It was only barely cooler than the Pioneer in the cab. There was LOTS of heat on the center seat and especially on the plastic shroud between the seat back and the bottom. Basically identical to the Pioneer, the difference was this shroud was quite a bit farther back so there was a fairly large air gap between your body and the shroud unlike on the Pioneer. There was the same amount of heat coming up between the bed and the back of the seats as the Pioneer

-The driveline pulses/surges really noticeably on a flat surface as though there was some driveline slippage. I was on flat parking lot holding my foot on a constant pressure, it would surge forward and release every 1-3 seconds enough that I was bobbing my head forward each time. It did it in both Hi and Lo range, very, very annoying

-The belt noticeably slipped a little while climbing a hill, you could feel it

-The shocks were very mushy on the front and very stiff in the back, when I would go over a bump the front would nosedive badly and the bed would "bounce" the Pioneer 1000 shocks are WAY better

-The Hi range very noticeably bogged the engine when going up on a very small, about 18" tall "whoop", I was really surprised at that, the Pioneer wouldn't have even changed RPMs to do that in Hi Range

-The overall feel of the machine was significantly more "plasticy" and cheaper feeling by a wide margin over the Pioneer

-The engine/driveline combination did not feel as "powerful" as the Pioneer. Where the Pioneer feels powerful and in need of restraint, the Defender felt "mushy" and in constant need of encouragement.

-The Defender comes with Po Po style nets instead of nice solid feeling doors which I am sure also greatly contributed to the lower cab heat based on others experiences here with removing their Pioneer 1000 doors.

The entire experience left me extremely underwhelmed and I would much rather keep my Pioneer, even with its annoying quirks.

 

[500]

Well, I just got back from test driving a Can Am Defender XT 10 at my local Can Am dealer.

I am not the happiest with my Pioneer 1000 5D so I decided to explore some other options.

For the TL;DR crowd:

I won't be trading my Pioneer 1000 in on a Defender.

For the more detail oriented crowd, my "review".

I took a Camo Defender XT 10 on an obstacle course test drive a few minutes ago. I drove it for a little over half an hour through a newly revised small obstacle course. I was actually the first person to ever drive on it since the changes. Nothing major just bumps and some articulation.

Observations:

-The seat was incredible. I really, really, wish the Pioneer 1000 came with this seat. Wow it was nice. Best part of the machine.

-Very quiet, much quieter driveline than the Pioneer, no contest here

-It was nice to have a constant acceleration and not have it shift into 2nd gear and jerk you and then immediately jerk you back when you let off the throttle or the scream of the RPMs when you hold it in 1st gear to avoid the shift

-The steering was much lighter than the Pioneer 1000 but it is also a lighter machine by 400+ lbs

-It was nice to just push a button and have the driving mode change instead of manually shifting and waiting and wondering. The change was also much quieter, no loud thunks and clunks

-The extra storage in the cab was very nice, there were places everywhere to put things, not like just a small glove box

-It was very easy to get to all the things you need to check under the bed

-There was no hot air blowing into your face through the shifter opening, it had rubber flanges on both sides of the channel which overlapped and blocked the opening and should be something fairly easy to add to the Pioneer.

-The gauge cluster was much nicer than the little LCD screen on the Pioneer

-The P, N, R, L, H range shifter was very, very hard to shift. Think parked on a hill in the Pioneer 1000 hard but on flat ground. When the guy brought it out to me to drive, he couldn't get it to shift into park so he just left it in Neutral for me to get in...

-The shift knob was all plastic and very, very cheap feeling. It would deform/bend in your hands trying to shift

-The machine got very hot, engine temp wise during my use. It was only 2 blocks away from the overheat warning and I was only driving around slow. The Pioneer never seems to change after warming up.

-It was only barely cooler than the Pioneer in the cab. There was LOTS of heat on the center seat and especially on the plastic shroud between the seat back and the bottom. Basically identical to the Pioneer, the difference was this shroud was quite a bit farther back so there was a fairly large air gap between your body and the shroud unlike on the Pioneer. There was the same amount of heat coming up between the bed and the back of the seats as the Pioneer

-The driveline pulses/surges really noticeably on a flat surface as though there was some driveline slippage. I was on flat parking lot holding my foot on a constant pressure, it would surge forward and release every 1-3 seconds enough that I was bobbing my head forward each time. It did it in both Hi and Lo range, very, very annoying

-The belt noticeably slipped a little while climbing a hill, you could feel it

-The shocks were very mushy on the front and very stiff in the back, when I would go over a bump the front would nosedive badly and the bed would "bounce" the Pioneer 1000 shocks are WAY better

-The Hi range very noticeably bogged the engine when going up on a very small, about 18" tall "whoop", I was really surprised at that, the Pioneer wouldn't have even changed RPMs to do that in Hi Range

-The overall feel of the machine was significantly more "plasticy" and cheaper feeling by a wide margin over the Pioneer

-The engine/driveline combination did not feel as "powerful" as the Pioneer. Where the Pioneer feels powerful and in need of restraint, the Defender felt "mushy" and in constant need of encouragement.

-The Defender comes with Po Po style nets instead of nice solid feeling doors which I am sure also greatly contributed to the lower cab heat based on others experiences here with removing their Pioneer 1000 doors.

The entire experience left me extremely underwhelmed and I would much rather keep my Pioneer, even with its annoying quirks.

Good review.
I was wandering about another review of the defender from someone else who owns a Pioneer 1000 - Interesting synopsis.
The Pioneer does have that solid as a rock feel - even if you do find annoying quirks.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Here is a follow up. As I am sure it is well known I am not gushing over my Pioneer 1000. There are things about it that I just don't like. So earlier this week I went back to the Can Am dealership and tried out a 2017 Defender 10XT.

Well, it isn't really any better than the 2016 that I tried last year and it actually had some things wrong with it. I spent about 45 min playing with it. (I didn't have anything else better to do that day anyway and I was the only customer there)

-It still gets hot, like the 2016. Nearly to the overheat bars going slow in low gear.
-The Eco/Work/Normal switch didn't work at all. I have no idea what mode I was in but since the LCD screen didn't have anything on it, I assume I was in Normal mode.
-In reverse it jumped and jerked horribly. I assume it was because of the clutch just barely engaging at the slow speed I was trying to back it into the parking place.
-This one had the same pulsing motion the other one had. This is way worse than the gear shifting that the Honda has. This was in both Hi and Low range
-The rear diff lock/unlock didn't work. You could push the button, it lit up, but the rear diff never locked. The indicator on the dash never showed locked and you could hear the solenoid in the back whining off and on trying to lock it. I was on a gravel test area so I turned tight turns and watched the inside wheel and it never did spin while every few seconds you could hear a whine/click in the back of the machine. I tried it 3 times, never did work. While I get aggravated at the Honda 2WD Lock/Turf not engaging fast enough and I get annoyed at having to adjust the cables, at least it always works.
-The shifter was worse on this one that the 2016. Holy crap you had to fight to get it into gear. Very hard to shift. I could see how this would wear a person out trying to do this all day. This was the "improved" 2017 model...

On the good side:

-It was still quieter than the Pioneer
-There was no heat through the shifter like I Pioneer
-The shocks seemed better on this one than the previous one

As an aside, I am a member on the Can Am Defender facebook page and there are currently problems with:

-Just driving along and it pops out of gear and you get grinding (believed to be shifter problem related)
-EFI problems with it not wanting to start depending on temperature
-Breaking axles/Front diff failures

Now the last one seems to be mostly related to people using 30"+ tires and 5"+ lifts and/or backing up in soupy mud. (Everyone seems to do this, why?) However there are some people that do not have those items and have had problems. It seems to be a bad enough and common enough problem that Can Am is changing the design of the front diff to the Maverick X3 differential design which is a significantly beefier design based on pictures with measurements. Not sure when this is going into effect. It is nice that Can Am has recognized a problem and is doing something about it and telling people what they are doing. Hint, hint, Honda...

So I am still a Honda owner, for now...