P1000 Clutches burnt up

[tundraman]

With all the posts of people abusing their machines it's good to see so few clutch issues.

 

[Admin]

 

[Hometeam]

With all the posts of people abusing their machines it's good to see so few clutch issues.

I couldn't agree more!!!! It is frustrating and ridiculous (sorry but it is) that people keep referring to this as a major problem and acting like they just can't believe that Honda is not addressing this, or worse yet some people are not buying one because of this fear...Seriously the percentage of affected units is so small this is not even worth talking about anymore!! If this was "Really" an issue....where are all the machines dropping like flies now that the summer is here and everyone is using there's (remember some were saying wait till summer and there will be tons more)??? So after all these pages of rambling on about this and that...and there is still only a few machines affected! I don't mean to sound like a dick here but this thread really should stop all the unjustified negative commits. And I just spent a lot of time reading on other forums about how slow and smooth they can go.....and guess what those $20k machines can't creep along...or they are saying to be low...but then some said u can't go over 20mph in low on a Polaris....really nothing is perfect but I can garentee that this utv is closer than those are!! Off rant but seriously this is being thrown out as major problem on a lot of threads here and no real issues just commits on this "so called fail by Honda". Just to clarify I have put my 1000 through everything that people say will destroy the clutches...slow driving, stopped on hills backed 1/2 mile up trails, etc etc....still nothing but bliss(except for my buddy hitting a tree and totaling it last week) so I will start on the next one with the same expectations and trust in it!!!! Happy trails and as always drive it like u stole it!!!)

 

[sharp]

THE END!

 

[Jacob4x4]

Well 200 miles on my p1000 and burnt the clutches up at hogwaller. Its at rc hill honda in fl under warranty I hope this isn't an ongoing thing

 

[tundraman]

Well 200 miles on my p1000 and burnt the clutches up at hogwaller. Its at rc hill honda in fl under warranty I hope this isn't an ongoing thing

How deep of mud were you stuck in?

 

[Jacob4x4]

How deep of mud were you stuck in?

Maybe half my tires and they are stock

 

[ghost]

He didn't need to be a smart ass, but I would tend to agree with him about low when on trails where you don't want to go more than 25 or 30, and tend to run mostly around 10 or 15mph. I prefer to run low/manual because we (me and Pete) don't always agree on when the shifting needs to occur. I'll run high/manual on gravel roads and other smooth tread where speeds are consistently 20 and above.

Maybe its the type of riding I do, but I spend a lot of time in high and this machine knows exactly when to change gears. I still love the engine breaking going down steep hills. Sometimes it seems to respond to changing trail condition and corners before I know whats coming... amazing.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Maybe half my tires and they are stock

Do you know what "vintage" your machine is? Was it purchased from a high volume dealer fairly recently or had it been sitting at the dealer for a while? Maybe produced during the initial production run?

 

[Jbird]

What vintage would you say my P1k-5 is? My vin# ends in 4000405? I have tried high and low range and MT and AT modes and mine seems to be happiest and smoothest at around 3200-3500 RPM in High and Manual Shift. Mostly mild to medium trails and two track forest roads. I don't do much rock climbing and no deep mud. Mine hasn't missed a beat, shuddered, or even tried to slip.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

What vintage would you say my P1k-5 is? My vin# ends in 4000405? I have tried high and low range and MT and AT modes and mine seems to be happiest and smoothest at around 3200-3500 RPM in High and Manual Shift. Mostly mild to medium trails and two track forest roads. I don't do much rock climbing and no deep mud. Mine hasn't missed a beat, shuddered, or even tried to slip.

I don't know how to read their VINs. I have a hypothesis that the "problem" transmissions were some of the earlier ones produced due to a manufacturing mistake (rather than a design problem) and it may have only been one operator on one shift that was putting in the wrong part/assembled wrong or something and that is why there are only intermittent reports of slipping. If my hypothesis is correct, once they figured out the failure mode, they added pokayokes to that process that should have prevented any future errors and the later production units won't have potential failure mode.

But if it was a recently assembled unit, then that hypothesis is null and it must be something else causing the errors. Still not necessarily a design issue, just something else.

 

[wilson111]

I took delivery of mine in October and have approximately 475 miles with no problems yet. I definitely think it's assembly problem because I've had mine stalled in 4-lo and reverse and still shifts fine as of now. I plan to ride the heck out of it to see if the problem arises but so far so good. I don't think it's drivers error because I have given mine hell just to see if it does it....

 

[walexa07]

Maybe its the type of riding I do, but I spend a lot of time in high and this machine knows exactly when to change gears. I still love the engine breaking going down steep hills. Sometimes it seems to respond to changing trail condition and corners before I know whats coming... amazing.

I'm with you 100% - I almost always use high. Only really technical situations do I ever use low. When I first got the P1K I thought it shifted alot and held the rpms too high, but it has definitely learned my driving style and now it shifts up quick and keeps the rpms low unless I punch it. I get to tool around pretty quiet - love it!

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Just asking because I didn't see it specified. Are you trail riding in Low Range or High Range? & have you change the oil yet (not sure how long you have had it) if so did you use full synthetic? I recommend only Low range for all tail riding under 30 MPH. It will not shudder nearly as much if you don't pussyfoot around with the throttle give it enough pedal to get moving (without giving everyone whiplash) easing into it only exaggerates the issue. Since having mine repaired there is no shuddering at all at any speed.

I have read through this and read some of your comments.

Does your machine still not shudder on hills since the clutch replacement?

Reason I ask is I have similar results to JMRubicon. I get some shudder/judder when starting off from a dead stop on an incline. Even stomping it down enough to give my wife whiplash still results in an instant of shudder. I applied enough throttle to get the machine to shift into 2nd before I had moved a car length and it still shuddered.

Do I need to complain to the dealer and get something started on warranty?

I got the impression from this and some of your other comments later in this thread that after your repair that if it was shuddering, there is something wrong.

I don't think I can supply enough throttle to prevent shudder and still keep the front wheels on the ground. It doesn't shudder at all if I have some momentum on the same hill.

 

[walexa07]

I think your shudder is not clutch shudder - it is the engine. Single cylinder would be worse.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I think your shudder is not clutch shudder - it is the engine. Single cylinder would be worse.

I don't think so.

I just got done doing another experiment. I stopped on the hill and stomped the gas, went from 0 to 15 MPH in probably slightly more than 10 ft and shifted through at least 3 gears, it shifted so fast it was hard to feel though. I wound up leaving 2 ruts in the yard from the tires digging in. It shuddered very strongly but very short duration.

If it were engine related, it should be related to RPMs and it should do it when I am going 5 or 6 MPH in the same area in first gear but it doesn't. I should also do it when I am engine braking down the same hill at 3-4 MPH and 3,000 RPM. It is a definite "slip/catch, slip/catch, slip/catch" thumping feeling.

It only does it when I am going uphill and the engine is under 5MPH.

Yes, before anyone says it, there is nothing that I can do at 3 MPH that I can't do at 5 MPH EXCEPT start from a full stop. I can't stop on the hill and go from 0 to 5MPH without going through the 0-4MPH bad zone. Unfortunately I don't live in a flat area, I HAVE to start on a hill. I don't have a choice. If I can't do anything with it on a hill, I might as well just sell it and just keep using my mower and dump cart.

I am going to take it out again this weekend with my brother and my wife on the farm. Since the ability for me to have both a shorter vehicle that I could work around the house in and still ride with 4 people, I didn't really have any other options other than the P1000-5 or the P700 and I didn't want a Rincon with 4 seats and a bed on it. However, unless we have a really good time all together, I think I am going to be selling it and getting something else before this problem becomes more widespread and more well known and I get stuck holding a $19,000 boondoggle that I can't use without tearing up and no one will buy.

Maybe someone in Kansas will want to buy it.

 

[amc019]

I don't think so.

I just got done doing another experiment. I stopped on the hill and stomped the gas, went from 0 to 15 MPH in probably slightly more than 10 ft and shifted through at least 3 gears, it shifted so fast it was hard to feel though. I wound up leaving 2 ruts in the yard from the tires digging in. It shuddered very strongly but very short duration.

If it were engine related, it should be related to RPMs and it should do it when I am going 5 or 6 MPH in the same area in first gear but it doesn't. I should also do it when I am engine braking down the same hill at 3-4 MPH and 3,000 RPM. It is a definite "slip/catch, slip/catch, slip/catch" thumping feeling.

It only does it when I am going uphill and the engine is under 5MPH.

Yes, before anyone says it, there is nothing that I can do at 3 MPH that I can't do at 5 MPH EXCEPT start from a full stop. I can't stop on the hill and go from 0 to 5MPH without going through the 0-4MPH bad zone. Unfortunately I don't live in a flat area, I HAVE to start on a hill. I don't have a choice. If I can't do anything with it on a hill, I might as well just sell it and just keep using my mower and dump cart.

I am going to take it out again this weekend with my brother and my wife on the farm. Since the ability for me to have both a shorter vehicle that I could work around the house in and still ride with 4 people, I didn't really have any other options other than the P1000-5 or the P700 and I didn't want a Rincon with 4 seats and a bed on it. However, unless we have a really good time all together, I think I am going to be selling it and getting something else before this problem becomes more widespread and more well known and I get stuck holding a $19,000 boondoggle that I can't use without tearing up and no one will buy.

Maybe someone in Kansas will want to buy it.

Mine does the same thing, and I'm on 30's with zero problems so far. Just try to get out of that zone as quickly as you can. I think it is prolonged use and stress in this zone that causes issues down the line.

But, if you're just going to try to find reasons to get rid of it, you might as well sell it because you'll always try to find something wrong with it instead of accepting it for what it is.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Mine does the same thing, and I'm on 30's with zero problems so far. Just try to get out of that zone as quickly as you can. I think it is prolonged use and stress in this zone that causes issues down the line.

But, if you're just going to try to find reasons to get rid of it, you might as well sell it because you'll always try to find something wrong with it instead of accepting it for what it is.

Thing is, I really, really, really DON'T want to get rid of it. Not only would I lose my shirt trading it in or selling it, but I spent countless hours researching what I wanted to get and this machine was the best based on that research. I like WAY more about it than I dislike.

But, I am really not feeling the warm and fuzzy about this transmission. I had convinced myself beyond a shadow of a doubt going into this purchase that the clutch slipping issue was an initial production run problem due to assembly but reading back over this thread, most people's problems started out with shuddering and then progressed into full on slipping and burnt clutches. Since I am in no way shape or form abusing this much less using it hard, and my machine was at the least the 4,900th white Deluxe manufactured, it is unlikely to be a manufacturing defect or a result of running too big of a tire or slipping the clutch in deep mud.

I am experiencing the same clutch judder that other members who use their machine much harder than I do and they had to have their clutches replaced. That leads me to the only hypothesis that is left and that is a design issue. The machine isn't designed to handle starting on steep hills.

I don't want to believe that, but I am really starting to.

 

[DRAGFOOT]

Call Honda and express your concerns and see what they can do.

 

[amc019]

Thing is, I really, really, really DON'T want to get rid of it. Not only would I lose my shirt trading it in or selling it, but I spent countless hours researching what I wanted to get and this machine was the best based on that research. I like WAY more about it than I dislike.

But, I am really not feeling the warm and fuzzy about this transmission. I had convinced myself beyond a shadow of a doubt going into this purchase that the clutch slipping issue was an initial production run problem due to assembly but reading back over this thread, most people's problems started out with shuddering and then progressed into full on slipping and burnt clutches. Since I am in no way shape or form abusing this much less using it hard, and my machine was at the least the 4,900th white Deluxe manufactured, it is unlikely to be a manufacturing defect or a result of running too big of a tire or slipping the clutch in deep mud.

I am experiencing the same clutch judder that other members who use their machine much harder than I do and they had to have their clutches replaced. That leads me to the only hypothesis that is left and that is a design issue. The machine isn't designed to handle starting on steep hills.

I don't want to believe that, but I am really starting to.

I understand, when more and more forum members started getting these things and adding larger tires, lifts, etc. there was a lot of panic as to how the transmission would hold up because it is geared just a tad bit too high in low and reverse, which makes the time period for full clutch engagement a little wider, even more so if you have larger tires. However, if you learn to drive where you get through that time gap quickly and out of the shudder zone, you'll be fine. Mine shudders on take off on flat ground if I try to ease it slow enough just because of the tires, but now that I am used to it, I put it in gear and I go. Use turf mode if you don't want to tear up the grass, it shouldn't be that bad with the stock bighorns. At the same time, you already got the 5 year warranty, so if you need the clutches replaced, who cares? Might not have the rig for a week or two, but it still wont cost you anything more than you've already paid.

I think that everyone that owns one of these machines will experience the shuddering when taking off from a dead stop on a hill, without a doubt. They just might not realize it. Bet your ass that even the most skilled stick-shifter in a jeep or truck starting from a stop on a steep hill will either make the engine/tranny shutter a bit on take off, or they would do like me and dump the clutch a little bit. My theory is when you park on the hill, as soon as you let off the brake you punch the gas, just like dumping a clutch, too eliminate the shudder zone all together. You just have to either get used to the shudder or stop caring as much about a few ruts in the grass. Honda would not design a machine that can't start and stop on a hill. I have pulled 1000 pounds of fallen timber on a trailer with 30" tires after stopping on a hill with no issue. Yes, it shuddered until it locked up, but it didnt last long.

Gotta pick your battles with this one.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

I understand, when more and more forum members started getting these things and adding larger tires, lifts, etc. there was a lot of panic as to how the transmission would hold up because it is geared just a tad bit too high in low and reverse, which makes the time period for full clutch engagement a little wider, even more so if you have larger tires. However, if you learn to drive where you get through that time gap quickly and out of the shudder zone, you'll be fine. Mine shudders on take off on flat ground if I try to ease it slow enough just because of the tires, but now that I am used to it, I put it in gear and I go. Use turf mode if you don't want to tear up the grass, it shouldn't be that bad with the stock bighorns. At the same time, you already got the 5 year warranty, so if you need the clutches replaced, who cares? Might not have the rig for a week or two, but it still wont cost you anything more than you've already paid.

I think that everyone that owns one of these machines will experience the shuddering when taking off from a dead stop on a hill, without a doubt. They just might not realize it. Bet your ass that even the most skilled stick-shifter in a jeep or truck starting from a stop on a steep hill will either make the engine/tranny shutter a bit on take off, or they would do like me and dump the clutch a little bit. My theory is when you park on the hill, as soon as you let off the brake you punch the gas, just like dumping a clutch, too eliminate the shudder zone all together. You just have to either get used to the shudder or stop caring as much about a few ruts in the grass. Honda would not design a machine that can't start and stop on a hill. I have pulled 1000 pounds of fallen timber on a trailer with 30" tires after stopping on a hill with no issue. Yes, it shuddered until it locked up, but it didnt last longI.

Gotta pick your battles with this one.

It isn't so much the ruts in the grass as the everything in the bed flies out if I try to "pop the clutch" on a hill, but I think I can work around that. I can try to always be facing downhill with something in the bed.

However, I find it annoying that I NEED to find a work around for a working vehicle.

I hope you are right about Honda and the design.

Thank you for mentioning that about the timber.

ETA: If the judder is just part of the design and everyone else's machine is doing the same thing and I am not going to ruin it by having it happen once in a while, I will be fine with it. The judder doesn't bother me, the fact that the judder may be an initial physical manifestation of me ruining my clutch bothers me. The fact that some people don't seem to have it at all bothers me because something must be different between my machine and theirs or the way we are using them and I would like to know what that is.