P1000 Clutches burnt up

[Scooterchris]

Gear reduction time!!

 

[Admin]

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Gals, Guys I'm telling you that somethings up, after getting my 1000-5 back from a dual clutch replacement, no more cluck, just a click while running through the gears. Really smooth now through the gears. Took 6 days to get it taken care of, would have been happy to wait a couple of weeks to get this taken care of. Honda has stepped up to the plate. They chamfered the oil relief valves (what ever that means) replaced both clutch assemblies. Never the less a lot quieter shifting unit. I was embarrassed to give some a ride before (big clunk). Sounded like it was going to fail. It did. Honda great job!

Did your paperwork mention anything about an ECU reflash?

I know the 2017 description mentioned improved shifting. I assumed it was a shift point change via the ECU but maybe it was something mechanical they changed. Chamfering the oil relief valves could be it.

I have no idea how the plumbing in there works but it could be related to the flow of the oil. Maybe the edges of the oil relief valves were causing turbulence in the oil flow which would cause reduced pressures. Adding a chamfer may reduce the Reynolds number of the oil flow and allow it to be laminar instead. Maybe that would increase the clamping force of the clutch itself?

 

[Kilo427]

Wish I knew where and how much they chamfered it while I hade it apart.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Wish I knew where and how much they chamfered it while I hade it apart.

Kinda thinking that's all that sets the 16 and 17 apart. I think it's pressure related can't wait to see part numbers on the new clutches


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[Smitty335]

Did your paperwork mention anything about an ECU reflash?

I know the 2017 description mentioned improved shifting. I assumed it was a shift point change via the ECU but maybe it was something mechanical they changed. Chamfering the oil relief valves could be it.

I have no idea how the plumbing in there works but it could be related to the flow of the oil. Maybe the edges of the oil relief valves were causing turbulence in the oil flow which would cause reduced pressures. Adding a chamfer may reduce the Reynolds number of the oil flow and allow it to be laminar instead. Maybe that would increase the clamping force of the clutch itself?

No on the ECU, but it's totally different now

 

[Smitty335]

Kinda thinking that's all that sets the 16 and 17 apart. I think it's pressure related can't wait to see part numbers on the new clutches


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Kinda thinking that's all that sets the 16 and 17 apart. I think it's pressure related can't wait to see part numbers on the new clutches


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My Repair Order Invoice has CLUTCH ASSY # 22500-HL4-003 on the new ones

 

[CumminsPusher]

My Repair Order Invoice has CLUTCH ASSY # 22500-HL4-003 on the new ones

Same part so far.

 

[Smitty335]

Did your paperwork mention anything about an ECU reflash?

I know the 2017 description mentioned improved shifting. I assumed it was a shift point change via the ECU but maybe it was something mechanical they changed. Chamfering the oil relief valves could be it.

I have no idea how the plumbing in there works but it could be related to the flow of the oil. Maybe the edges of the oil relief valves were causing turbulence in the oil flow which would cause reduced pressures. Adding a chamfer may reduce the Reynolds number of the oil flow and allow it to be laminar instead. Maybe that would increase the clamping force of the clutch itself?

Could you explain Reynolds/Laminar please?

 

[Smitty335]

Next time I'm at the Dealer I'm going to test drive a 2016 to see if it has the same clunk that mine used to have and then drive a 2017

 

[Smitty335]

Kinda thinking that's all that sets the 16 and 17 apart. I think it's pressure related can't wait to see part numbers on the new clutches


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Would the be the seating area, inlet, or outlet side of the oil relief valve or both?

 

[Smitty335]

Would the be the seating area, inlet, or outlet side of the oil relief valve or both?

Or all

 

[Kilo427]

Wonder if I could just order that part since it's all torn down right now

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Could you explain Reynolds/Laminar please?

Reynolds number:

Reynolds number - Wikipedia

Simple answer:

It is a measure of how close to ideal Laminar versus Turbulent flow you are.

Laminar flow is like water running in a stream and you can't see any ripples.

Turbulent flow is like a stream with rapids.

Ideally you want Laminar flow any in most situations because you get higher and more repeatable fluid pressure. Turbulent flow is usually lower pressure and not consistent.

Lots of things can cause turbulence but I know that sharp edges in the wrong place can cause turbulence, adding a chamfer or radius may reduce this and allow the flow to be laminar (or get it out of a transition zone that is fine at one oil temp but bad at another). But I don't have a clue what the plumbing looks like down there or how it is supposed to flow so it could be something completely irrelevant to oil pressure. I don't know what the pressure relief valves are for in this application. I assume they are used as part of the shifting logic but I am likely wrong.

That was just the first thought that sprang into my mind when I read your post.

 

[Smitty335]

Reynolds number:

Reynolds number - Wikipedia

Simple answer:

It is a measure of how close to ideal Laminar versus Turbulent flow you are.

Laminar flow is like water running in a stream and you can't see any ripples.

Turbulent flow is like a stream with rapids.

Ideally you want Laminar flow any in most situations because you get higher and more repeatable fluid pressure. Turbulent flow is usually lower pressure and not consistent.

Lots of things can cause turbulence but I know that sharp edges in the wrong place can cause turbulence, adding a chamfer or radius may reduce this and allow the flow to be laminar (or get it out of a transition zone that is fine at one oil temp but bad at another). But I don't have a clue what the plumbing looks like down there or how it is supposed to flow so it could be something completely irrelevant to oil pressure. I don't know what the pressure relief valves are for in this application. I assume they are used as part of the shifting logic but I am likely wrong.

That was just the first thought that sprang into my mind when I read your post.

What ever they did it is great. WOW

 

[txsurfer]

What ever they did it is great. WOW

No complaints with mine so far but quieter shifting wouldn't suck.. Are clutches covered under the Honda extended warranty or not?

 

[cschomber63]

No complaints with mine so far but quieter shifting wouldn't suck.. Are clutches covered under the Honda extended warranty or not?

Should be


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[Smitty335]

No complaints with mine so far but quieter shifting wouldn't suck.. Are clutches covered under the Honda extended warranty or not?

Yes, I would talk to your dear about chamfering your oil relief valves before your clutches go out. Mine is a totally different shifting transmission since they did that. The clutches that they put in are the same part # as always. Must be the chamfering that made the difference.

 

[Kilo427]

Wish I knew what part of it I would do it myself

 

[txsurfer]

Wish I knew what part of it I would do it myself[/QUOTE

So they are increasing oil flow by chamfering?

 

[Smitty335]

I think so