Front differential noise

[906UP]

Anyone else notice a high pitched whine from the front diff on deceleration when in 4wd? Mine has done it since day 1. It sounds like either the pinion depth isn't set right or ring gear backlash is too tight. Mine's still under warranty but getting it to the dealer is a pain in the d#ck. My dealer closed and the next nearest is 2hrs plus away plus I'm gone during the week for work. I think I'm going to pull the diff, inspect and re-do the set up. Something is off. Probably wait till after next weekend. Just curious if others have noticed it.

Before you ask, this is not coming from the sub trans, definitely front diff noise. The oil is full, I just changed it again to check for debris, none found, the oil is always clean. It doesn't look to difficult to remove & the shims are pretty cheap so I'm not worked about the costs.

 

[CumminsPusher]

Both Talons I’ve driven did this. Only in I-4wd though, neither made that noise in 2wd. Definitely comes from the front end.

 

[CID]

I noticed mine was noisy in i4wd, turns out my left front axle is leaking at the differential and I was 6 oz low. Dealer ordered the seal, will call when it gets here.

 

[Kristopher]

I get the same noise only in 4wd. Think it’s because of the straight cut gears on the front.

 

[906UP]

I get the same noise only in 4wd. Think it’s because of the straight cut gears on the front.

For sure, I'm sure everything is fine & within Honda spec on mine, I'm just curious if it can better....quieter. I don't hear it on accel, only decel. My plan is to pull it and check the contact pattern, pinion depth, etc.

 

[PaulF]

Straight cut gears generally whine. Not sure why they are common in the front diff but at least I always know when I am in 4WD without looking at the tiny indicator on the gauge I can't see .

Not much you can do to make it quieter except try some different gear oils. Redline Shockproof is know to quiet up gears, I might give that a try...

 

[CumminsPusher]

Lucas 85-140 quiets the Pioneer pretty well.

 

[906UP]

Straight cut gears generally whine. Not sure why they are common in the front diff but at least I always know when I am in 4WD without looking at the tiny indicator on the gauge I can't see .

Not much you can do to make it quieter except try some different gear oils. Redline Shockproof is know to quiet up gears, I might give that a try...

View attachment 204653View attachment 204654

I agree, gears are my business. It could be very well that everything is fine. I'm just curious is all, maybe I should have explained better. I expect noise/whine given the design, my interest is that there is such a difference in the whine from accell to decell.....as in Night & Day. That's what makes me wonder if the set up of the pinion depth/backlash is not optimal. Its probably nothing but I'll still probably tear it apart just to satisfy my OCD.

 

[PaulF]

I agree, gears are my business. It could be very well that everything is fine. I'm just curious is all, maybe I should have explained better. I expect noise/whine given the design, my interest is that there is such a difference in the whine from accell to decell.....as in Night & Day. That's what makes me wonder if the set up of the pinion depth/backlash is not optimal. Its probably nothing but I'll still probably tear it apart just to satisfy my OCD.

Maybe this has something to do with it?...

 

[906UP]

Maybe this has something to do with it?...

View attachment 204683

Interesting.......

 

[906UP]

Maybe this has something to do with it?...

View attachment 204683

The parts lists show the front as 13/44 front, 13/46 rear.....lol. I'd bet money they are the same exact ratio front & back. I found this same error when researching the P500 gear mod also. The parts lists showed different ratios but it was a typo, they were actually the same.

 

[CID]

The parts lists show the front as 13/44 front, 13/46 rear.....lol. I'd bet money they are the same exact ratio front & back. I found this same error when researching the P500 gear mod also. The parts lists showed different ratios but it was a typo, they were actually the same.

Decades ago it was common practice in 4wd vehicles, they wanted the front end pulling the rear; they didn't want the rear pushing the front if I remember correctly.

 

[GWH]

Decades ago it was common practice in 4wd vehicles, they wanted the front end pulling the rear; they didn't want the rear pushing the front if I remember correctly.

Check the play in the pinion bearings,or hopefully lack of.the fact u can vary the pitch of the whining by loading and unloading the torque on it, I’d agree something is moving w the contact patch of the teeth.

 

[PaulF]

The parts lists show the front as 13/44 front, 13/46 rear.....lol. I'd bet money they are the same exact ratio front & back. I found this same error when researching the P500 gear mod also. The parts lists showed different ratios but it was a typo, they were actually the same.

I can't stand conflicts (my OCD kicked in as soon as you posted that) so I jacked mine up and started rotating wheels and counted. For my machine (2019 R), the service manual is correct and the parts list is incorrect. Front is 13/44 and the rear is 13/43.

Mine has had a slight whine/rumble (however you want to describe it) while decelerating in 4WD at higher speeds since it was new. Dealer said it is normal. A little less noticeable after changing the diff oils. Much more noticeable on hard pack then it is in sand. My previous Rhino and by BIL's RZR make similar noises.

 

[906UP]

I can't stand conflicts (my OCD kicked in as soon as you posted that) so I jacked mine up and started rotating wheels and counted. For my machine (2019 R), the service manual is correct and the parts list is incorrect. Front is 13/44 and the rear is 13/43.

Mine has had a slight whine/rumble (however you want to describe it) while decelerating in 4WD at higher speeds since it was new. Dealer said it is normal. A little less noticeable after changing the diff oils. Much more noticeable on hard pack then it is in sand. My previous Rhino and by BIL's RZR make similar noises.

Maybe I should try some different oil first but it bugs me. I work with gears & gear design and know something isn't right, or as "right" as it should be. At least the went with spiral bevels in the rear 🤷‍♂️

 

[906UP]

My curiosity got the better of me today so I took the front diff out of the Talon. I checked the backlash, it was within spec (0.050mm-0.250mm) but on the high end @ 0.190mm. I had shims of 2.06mm on the right and 2.18mm on the left. Per the service manual the backlash is changed by 0.060mm when changing the shim thickness on the left by 0.120mm so I swapped the shims left to right, the backlash is closer to 0.110mm.



So after all that how's the gear whine?........exactly the same

I get that straight cut gears are noisy but they can be so much better, I guess it's time to find some better oil 🙄

 

[Hondasxs]

I thought I read the Talon was NOT stright cut?
The Pioneer is stright and its loud also.

 

[Hometeam]

My curiosity got the better of me today so I took the front diff out of the Talon. I checked the backlash, it was within spec (0.050mm-0.250mm) but on the high end @ 0.190mm. I had shims of 2.06mm on the right and 2.18mm on the left. Per the service manual the backlash is changed by 0.060mm when changing the shim thickness on the left by 0.120mm so I swapped the shims left to right, the backlash is closer to 0.110mm.

View attachment 217765 View attachment 217766 View attachment 217767

So after all that how's the gear whine?........exactly the same

I get that straight cut gears are noisy but they can be so much better, I guess it's time to find some better oil 🙄

I just changed all my Talon's fluids over to Amsoil. It made a difference on how smooth it shifts and the diff noise is less. How much less is subjective but I definitely notice a difference in it. I did this to both my Pioneer 1000's and it was noticeable in those too! I run Amsoil in everything I own. I put it in my YXZ and made a difference in it also! Might be worth a try!

 

[TMCCOY]

I used Redline heavy shock proof in the diffs and I think that helped with the noise.

 

[906UP]

I thought I read the Talon was NOT stright cut?
The Pioneer is stright and its loud also.

The rear is a spiral bevel (helical) but the front is still straight cut