P1000 Fuel in the exhaust

[HondaTech]

Uhmm, I was a Honda Tech Rep for the General Purpose Engine division.

I did warranty application testing and was Honda certified in dealer training.

Thats pretty cool, I wish the PE division did more hands on stuff.

 

[Admin]

 

[Jerryg]

Thats pretty cool, I wish the PE division did more hands on stuff.

The PE division became a bit of a joke when they started selling in box stores.

 

[Smitty335]

This system is really odd sometimes.

There is no cam sensor so it's uses the MAP sensor signal to fire injectors.

Another weird thing I've observed is if the unit is running and you pull the front injector plug (I think) the engine will run on the rear for a few more seconds then throw the code for injector failure. Meanwhile pulling the rear will immediately shut the engine off. 🤷🏻‍♂

I may have those backwards, its been so long since I've fought a Pioneer running on just 1 cylinder, that wasn't the injector wiring.

I don't want to get in your bidness, what would happen if he swaped coils?

 

[Jerryg]

It could be something more complicated but it can be as simple as very low octane fuel.

I say start with the easy stuff first and make sure there is fresh fuel in that thing.

 

[HondaTech]

I don't want to get in your bidness, what would happen if he swaped coils?

He's already checked spark on both, so that really shouldn't change anything.

 

[HondaTech]

The PE division became a bit of a joke when they started selling in box stores.

We got pretty good money fixing warranty stuff that was sold at the box stores. Honda pays double labor on those repairs.

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

He's already checked spark on both, so that really shouldn't change anything.

I’m going to
Check the coils tomorrow with a meter but they both spark great with the old plugs. Ill
Check for battery voltage and then 100 volt min at start up.

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

We got pretty good money fixing warranty stuff that was sold at the box stores. Honda pays double labor on those repairs.

Are the injectors able to be swapped easily to rule out a stuck injector?

 

[HondaTech]

Are the injectors able to be swapped easily to rule out a stuck injector?

They are the same front and rear, but it takes a bit of digging to get there.

 

[Smitty335]

It could be something more complicated but it can be as simple as very low octane fuel.

I say start with the easy stuff first and make sure there is fresh fuel in that thing.

There were some interesting conversations here from some chemists from the oil industry a couple years ago talking about corn gas, basically the synopsis was Ethanol is fine to run in a four stroke motor as long as you didn't let sit for a long time as well as non corn. Two stroke gas is different according to them, it needs non-corn and a higher octane to keep the two stroke oil suspended for even distribution for lubrication, that makes since. Corn gas is all I've run in my P1 since 16 with 4,000 miles on it, clutches and wiring issues have been the only issues and they didn't come into contact with gas.

 

[CID]

Yea drop 20k and it’s broken in less than 350 miles with a nice leisurely drive with the kids. I’d feel better about it if it was redlined all the time like my truck and snowmobile. This things has only seen top speed once on a straight away down the road
For about a mile and a half and that’s it. The rest of the time it has been at 25 -30 mph or less.

This would be a good time to mention this - once warmed up, the fan should always cycle during the ride. If you're riding in the cold or a bunch of short rides, it's a good idea to block some, or all, of your radiator. Keep adding blockage until you get the fan to cycle normally (like it does in warmer weather). This may have helped in your current situation but there's no way to know what you don't know. Don't forget it's covered if you go for an all day ride.

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

This would be a good time to mention this - once warmed up, the fan should always cycle during the ride. If you're riding in the cold or a bunch of short rides, it's a good idea to block some, or all, of your radiator. Keep adding blockage until you get the fan to cycle normally (like it does in warmer weather). This may have helped in your current situation but there's no way to know what you don't know. Don't forget it's covered if you go for an all day ride.

Thanks. Didn’t know that. Why does that help? Just to keep the fluids warmed up and the fan operating to prevent seize up of the fan?

 

[CID]

Thanks. Didn’t know that. Why does that help? Just to keep the fluids warmed up and the fan operating to prevent seize up of the fan?

The most important thing is that it keeps the condensation burned out of the oil so it doesn't turn milky. And HondaTech just mentioned that they hate being driven short distances, this will help with a quicker warm up, most notably, getting the plugs up to temp.

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

The most important thing is that it keeps the condensation burned out of the oil so it doesn't turn milky. And HondaTech just mentioned that they hate being driven short distances, this will help with a quicker warm up, most notably, getting the plugs up to temp.

Good to know. Thanks

 

[Jerryg]

There were some interesting conversations here from some chemists from the oil industry a couple years ago talking about corn gas, basically the synopsis was Ethanol is fine to run in a four stroke motor as long as you didn't let sit for a long time as well as non corn. Two stroke gas is different according to them, it needs non-corn and a higher octane to keep the two stroke oil suspended for even distribution for lubrication, that makes since. Corn gas is all I've run in my P1 since 16 with 4,000 miles on it, clutches and wiring issues have been the only issues and they didn't come into contact with gas.

I was thinking more a human error issue, like his kid accidentally grabbed the wrong gas can or the fuel tank delivery guy puts the wrong fuel in the wrong tank at the gas station. These kind of accidents happen more than you know.

 

[Jerryg]

We got pretty good money fixing warranty stuff that was sold at the box stores. Honda pays double labor on those repairs.

Yeah, they had to do something to incentivize dealers after they pulled the rug out from under them. Honda told us that they would never do that, then low and behold new asshole comes in and whammy.

It used to be that Honda wanted proof of PDI before delivery or they would void any warranty. Then they sell to Home Depot with the handles folded and a bottle of oil in the box.

​

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

I was thinking more a human error issue, like his kid accidentally grabbed the wrong gas can or the fuel tank delivery guy puts the wrong fuel in the wrong tank at the gas station. These kind of accidents happen more than you know.

Yep. I’m the only one that fills it and gas cans are green and red. Diesel is yellow containers and I have no kerosene. Definitely not diesel because I know the smell all to well with my truck and tractors. It’s only been filled a hand full of times because of the low mileage.

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

They are the same front and rear, but it takes a bit of digging to get there.

Ok so I couldn’t get the tank lid off to get all of the fuel out without the special adapter for the ratchet but I jacked the sxs up under the rear end so all the fuel
Went to the front. Pumped that out. Put fresh stuff in about a 1 1/2-2 gallons with one bottle of heet . Put atf fluid in the cylinder and let it sit for 30-40 min. Put the plugs back in and let it run for 15 min. Throttled it up and down through out that time and no fire on the first cylinder. Grabbed the injector wires and moved them around and still no go. When I got out there for a split second to check the plugs for fuel I turned it over and both plugs were wet with gas.

 

[Jerryg]

Ok so I couldn’t get the tank lid off to get all of the fuel out without the special adapter for the ratchet but I jacked the sxs up under the rear end so all the fuel
Went to the front. Pumped that out. Put fresh stuff in about a 1 1/2-2 gallons with one bottle of heet . Put atf fluid in the cylinder and let it sit for 30-40 min. Put the plugs back in and let it run for 15 min. Throttled it up and down through out that time and no fire on the first cylinder. Grabbed the injector wires and moved them around and still no go. When I got out there for a split second to check the plugs for fuel I turned it over and both plugs were wet with gas.

Something must be shutting the spark down.

 

[Fordpickupjaybird2003]

Something must be shutting the spark down.

Yea I don’t know. Hopefully the mechanic figures it out fairly quick. I put a timing gun on the wires that are on the spark plug and the wires have full power and are firing. I don’t get it. All I could say is maybe stuck injector or no compression because I find it hard to believe that water is in the fuel still with a bottle and a half of heet poured in two different batches of fuel. If there was that much water I’d say both cylinders would have gone out.