No, from the Top of the nut (like you have it) to the top of the top spring (and it doesn't matter if the spring is loaded or not)...
Looks like a lil shy of 1-3/16" on both rear left and rear right.
BTW that strap wrench is my new best friend! Left rear 20 turns by spinning coils
OK, so you have 5 1/2 coils. I round up to 6 for a little air space.
Space you just measured 1.165
Plus Crossover Nuts 1.000
Plus Lip on Spring Spacer .433
Minus Near bound spring (6 X .441) -2.646
Available Space -.048 << This could COIL BIND
If you use the actual 5.5 coils, there is about about .6" of airgap. That is .1" between each coil. This is about as tight as I would go, put some wire ties on and watch for them to smash/break and/or paint rubbing marks on the coils. If they bind, you need to back the preload off (you have no choice).
If you need any more lift, you will need new springs or some 1/2" or 1" spring spacers on the lower springs.
Space you just measured 1.165
Plus Crossover Nuts 1.000
Plus Lip on Spring Spacer .433
Minus Near bound spring (6 X .441) -2.646
Available Space -.048 << This could COIL BIND
If you use the actual 5.5 coils, there is about about .6" of airgap. That is .1" between each coil. This is about as tight as I would go, put some wire ties on and watch for them to smash/break and/or paint rubbing marks on the coils. If they bind, you need to back the preload off (you have no choice).
If you need any more lift, you will need new springs or some 1/2" or 1" spring spacers on the lower springs.
CID
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I was able to check for coil bind on the rear by parking across a rut, diagonally. This gave me full tender compression on one spring, This idea didn't work on the front for me, for some reason.
Sorry about the monster pics, new site software took away my size choices.
Although this looks coil bound, it never dented the zip tie - you can see the small gap. My preload was stock and the crossovers were raised 20 turns (Talon R).
Sorry about the monster pics, new site software took away my size choices.
Although this looks coil bound, it never dented the zip tie - you can see the small gap. My preload was stock and the crossovers were raised 20 turns (Talon R).
Well i'm at 14.5 in rear and 14 in front with 7 turns down on crossover nut and 20 turns down on preload nut, based on calculations I have nothing left in the rear and will test for bind with a cable tie. I have a Rush offroad trip planned In a couple weeks an plan to run it like this (provided no rear bind) and see how it does. Based off that trip will be whether I do spring kit or just send the shocks out for springs and valving.
Thanks so much for everyone's help, especially @PaulF and @CID!!
Thanks so much for everyone's help, especially @PaulF and @CID!!
CID
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Supporting Member
Since I had added so much weight, I went 25 turns tighter, a bit at a time, on the rear because I wasn't getting much rise in the ground clearance as measured on the garage floor even though I ran it up-n-down the driveway over the curb. But after a ride, I found the ground clearance to be an inch too high, that's when I raised the preload 5 turns - so I backed off to 20 lower than stock.
My point, static measuring, including a couple of curb bounces didn't settle the adjustment like I thought it would,
it took a ride for that to happen - so recheck it after a ride. 👍
If memory serves me correct, the front is not the same ratio as the rear and you should have plenty left on the front. Crank the crossovers AND the preload on the front another 10 turns. Not that I know the reason but everyone says you do not want the front lower than the rear. At least make them even.
I only got 7 turns out of the front crossover nut before running out of thread, I may go another 5 or 10 turns on preload but want to see where I'm at with weight in the back. I expect at least .5" drop in the rear which would make me even with the front.
Just got off the phone with Weller, as I was going to order a spring kit, unfortunately at this time they do not offer any spring kits or re-valving options for the Live Valve models.
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Give Gary from G-Force Racing Technologies and Suspension out of Johnson City, Tennessee a call. Last time I talked to him he has a LV set up and from my experience and others on this site he is Top Notch and a great guy. Walked me all the way through my setup and I am beyond happy with it. I know it is hard to have both plush and cornering capability in the same setup.....but mine is better in every type of riding I do. Fast it just flat handles, slow it soaks it up. I did springs, valving and Hi/Low compression adjusters. I'd spend all the money again. Actually I am looking at another Talon (or machine) right now and have talked to him about sending it all to him once I get it. I have Weller products on my YXZ and they are top notch too and would totally trust there suspension setups if they offered one for the LV.
Just pulled the trigger on a spring kit from Shock Therapy. Hopefully I'm happy!
Congrats! Let us know your thoughts when done!!
B
I know this post is 4 months old, but I guess I missed it. This is fairly profound (to me at least) that the valving is the root cause of the harsh ride. I have raised the crossover rings and removed the sway bar, and find the ride tolerable. I have noticed a considerable sag in the rear end due to the weight that I have added: Tool box, tools, recovery gear, spare tire and mount, and 2- 2 gallon gas cans and mounts. That is probably very close to 200 pounds. I measured the ride height at the rear at only 10.5". That is to the top of my skid plate, where the frame turns in at the rear. The front is about 12.5" to the top of the skid plate, just behind the rear A-arm bracket. I have 30x 9.50-15 tires, 29.5" actual height.
I set out this morning to try to raise the rear end. I ended up running the crossover rings all the way down. I ran the preloads down as far as I could, leaving about 1/2" between the top of the crossover rings, and the bottom of the spring seat ring. After a quick test drive to settle everything, I measured the rear ride height at 12.5", the same as the front. I will leave it at that for now. I wish I could get it out for a good test ride, but all of the public lands here are locked down due to fire danger.
I will probably be taking my Talon to Weller sometime fairly soon. I only live about 2 hours from them. I trust them to figure out the right setup, but it looks like I need slightly stiffer springs, with the weight I have added. @PaulF, I wonder if the springs that Weller installed on your Talon have a longer free length than stock? That would seem to be desirable, to get the shocks back more in the middle of the adjustment range.
No, they are actually shorter but (believe it or not) stiffer than stock in the rear so they don't compress as much. I am close to running out of threads (but my machine weighs 1,950 lbs.) so you may want to ask them for some longer main springs just in case you add more weight.
Just as an update on my ST spring kit, after 3 different sets of springs and still not hitting correct ride height or seeing an almost fully clasped upper spring in the front end I decided to return the springs. I can say ST did their best with my unique application however fell they could just not get it right and I was tired of changing springs. By unique application I mean being a Live Valve model and A LOT of added weight.
I reached out to Alltech Motorsports back in March and due to timing decided to go with ST. Dan happened to be back home in Ohio back in April and offered to come out and measure my car and offer his opinion of spring length and rates for all four corners both upper and lower spring. When suggesting these numbers to ST I was given 2 options, keep what I had as they truly felt it was the correct springs. Or they offered to give me a whole new set of springs that match what was suggested, however if I chose options 2 they would not be able to support me, including warranty.... I offered a 3rd option of returning all springs for a full refund to which they agreed and even sent a prepaid label to ship them back.
I reached back out to Dan and got a spring kit on order, I received them within a week and have been extremely happy with where the car is at and look forward to an even better ride when pulling the trigger for valving.
I reached out to Alltech Motorsports back in March and due to timing decided to go with ST. Dan happened to be back home in Ohio back in April and offered to come out and measure my car and offer his opinion of spring length and rates for all four corners both upper and lower spring. When suggesting these numbers to ST I was given 2 options, keep what I had as they truly felt it was the correct springs. Or they offered to give me a whole new set of springs that match what was suggested, however if I chose options 2 they would not be able to support me, including warranty.... I offered a 3rd option of returning all springs for a full refund to which they agreed and even sent a prepaid label to ship them back.
I reached back out to Dan and got a spring kit on order, I received them within a week and have been extremely happy with where the car is at and look forward to an even better ride when pulling the trigger for valving.
