P500 Height, Width, CoG...

[Sledge]

...as related to flopping.

I googled center of gravity, and it didn't help me much.

I want to know if, when one raises a p5 1", and widens footprint by 1", (to keep it simple), by installing bigger tires, do they exactly cancel each other out?

My gut tells me 1" wider should help more than 1" taller hurts, for a net stability gain, but I don't know.

Anecdotal input welcome, but I'm really hoping someone who understands the geometry and physics involved can give a definitive answer.

TIA.

Joe

 

[Admin]

 

[Montecresto]

Guess we have no engineers Joe.

 

[pFive]

I think on the math side you would need to plug in a lot more variables. We need two bikes, one being stock and one with mods, some rope and an inclinometer. And some people to stay in the seats just for kicks n giggles.

 

[Sledge]

I think on the math side you would need to plug in a lot more variables. We need two bikes, one being stock and one with mods, some rope and an inclinometer. And some people to stay in the seats just for kicks n giggles.

I'm not sure I agree, p5.

You're talking about testing, and I'm talking about predicting.

If, and it's a big if, someone knows how to calculate CoG, and of course we can measure footprint width, I think all other variables are extraneous.

Certainly short people with big butts will lower the CoG as compared to tall bodybuilders, but that just pollutes the raw data. Suspension matters, tire profile matters too.

Forget it's even a vehicle. Let's say it's just a big metal frame.

I believe some kind of engineer, probably mechanical,could answer my question using just the two variables.

Not sure, though.

Joe

 

[joeymt33]

I'm not sure I agree, p5.

You're talking about testing, and I'm talking about predicting.

If, and it's a big if, someone knows how to calculate CoG, and of course we can measure footprint width, I think all other variables are extraneous.

Certainly short people with big butts will lower the CoG as compared to tall bodybuilders, but that just pollutes the raw data. Suspension matters, tire profile matters too.

Forget it's even a vehicle. Let's say it's just a big metal frame.

I believe some kind of engineer, probably mechanical,could answer my question using just the two variables.

Not sure, though.

Joe

I'm no engineer, but I did drive a train once.

I'm just not smart enough to take all the different variables and give you a good answer. I would just leave it at the fact that if you go taller you should go wider.

You could fill your tires with water.

Adding those heavy UHMW skids help COG.

 

[rocmar]

I'm no engineer, but I did drive a train once.

I'm just not smart enough to take all the different variables and give you a good answer. I would just leave it at the fact that if you go taller you should go wider.

You could fill your tires with water.

Adding those heavy UHMW skids help COG.

I do know they come with24"
Tall tires for a reason....I went with
26"....yes wider would help...
I've tipped my twice...

 

[Montecresto]

I'm no engineer, but I did drive a train once.

I'm just not smart enough to take all the different variables and give you a good answer. I would just leave it at the fact that if you go taller you should go wider.

You could fill your tires with water.

Adding those heavy UHMW skids help COG.

Wonder how heavy that 1000 lb. sxs would be, the mods and tools/supplies already have it at 1,320 plus 400 for people might be over a ton with water in the wheels and those heavy UMHW skids. That little 475cc may have trouble at some point.

 

[rocmar]

Wonder how heavy that 1000 lb. sxs would be, the mods and tools/supplies already have it at 1,320 plus 400 for people might be over a ton with water in the wheels and those heavy UMHW skids. That little 475cc may have trouble at some point.

Water in wheels....would snap
the axles before it got a dozen
revolutions on tires

 

[Sledge]

Water in wheels....would snap
the axles before it got a dozen
revolutions on tires

Water in wheels....would snap
the axles before it got a dozen
revolutions on tires

I'm thinking that our remarkably experienced and insightful friend Joey was joking.

Maybe he's a logger, though. We did use liquid in tires as ballast to keep skidders upright. Man, those suckers were fun.

We were young and fit, and we called it "sport logging".

Played rugby on weekends.

I miss being indestructible.

Joe

 

[iowaguy]

Water in wheels....would snap
the axles before it got a dozen
revolutions on tires

I have the tires on my garden tractor full of fluid on the rears ,it makes it stable on steep sidehills this puts no stress on the axle .

 

[Montecresto]

I'm not using water, but an anti-freeze mixture in the rear wheels of my 5 series John Deere. It is indeed more stable and no worries on the axles, but then it is a tractor. I'll agree with Joe that Joey was likely kidding as I don't know that it would be a prudent application for the P-5.

 

[iowaguy]

I'm not using water, but an anti-freeze mixture in the rear wheels of my 5 series John Deere. It is indeed more stable and no worries on the axles, but then it is a tractor. I'll agree with Joe that Joey was likely kidding as I don't know that it would be a prudent application for the P-5.

I completely agree ,I guess my point was that it doesn't stress the axle.l owned a farm for 20 plus years and had calcium chloride in the rear tires of all my tractors.this was a cheap source for a lot of weight.Getting back to the question of the thread ,I think there are a lot of variables that have to be taken in to consideration, apparently Honda didn't even consider them all, because we all got the notifications.the best answer is ,Be careful and if it looks to steep ,go around it.

 

[rocmar]

I'm not using water, but an anti-freeze mixture in the rear wheels of my 5 series John Deere. It is indeed more stable and no worries on the axles, but then it is a tractor. I'll agree with Joe that Joey was likely kidding as I don't know that it would be a prudent application for the P-5.

Agree

 

[rocmar]

I completely agree ,I guess my point was that it doesn't stress the axle.l owned a farm for 20 plus years and had calcium chloride in the rear tires of all my tractors.this was a cheap source for a lot of weight.Getting back to the question of the thread ,I think there are a lot of variables that have to be taken in to consideration, apparently Honda didn't even consider them all, because we all got the notifications.the best answer is ,Be careful and if it looks to steep ,go around it.

I go around a mud puddle
...but a challenging hill
gets a second look...
HaHa

 

[pFive]

My sarcasm is lost here... :-( LOL

 

[Sledge]

We are so unworthy.

Joe

 

[rocmar]

I completely agree ,I guess my point was that it doesn't stress the axle.l owned a farm for 20 plus years and had calcium chloride in the rear tires of all my tractors.this was a cheap source for a lot of weight.Getting back to the question of the thread ,I think there are a lot of variables that have to be taken in to consideration, apparently Honda didn't even consider them all, because we all got the notifications.the best answer is ,Be careful and if it looks to steep ,go around it.

That tractor is heavy-duty
p500..not so much

 

[Montecresto]

I completely agree ,I guess my point was that it doesn't stress the axle.l owned a farm for 20 plus years and had calcium chloride in the rear tires of all my tractors.this was a cheap source for a lot of weight.Getting back to the question of the thread ,I think there are a lot of variables that have to be taken in to consideration, apparently Honda didn't even consider them all, because we all got the notifications.the best answer is ,Be careful and if it looks to steep ,go around it.

Indubitably, and I agreed with you that if we're talking about tractors, there's no question the axles can take it. In fact it was my John Deere dealer that suggested the fluid in the tires when I expressed concerns about stability. The P-5's a whole other deal and Honda's not likely to be suggesting water in the tires on it. Hadn't heard of calcium chloride in the tires, I'm assuming it was liquid, and something that doesn't freeze? I also agree that we all received the notices that Honda was back-pedalling on their original guarantee that their machine met certain UTV safety standards. I didn't cover up their original sticker with the noncomplient one they sent me. At any rate, I don't need assurances or warnings from Honda or anybody else, the P-5 is the most unstable sxs I've owned, but being well aware of that, I ride it accordingly and have avoided a flop in 1,000 miles despite the several close calls and I love this sxs as the premiere trail machine.

 

[ehart814]

I had an old Honda 350 4x4. 1986 model I believe... When I bought it, it had calcium in the tires because the guy I got it from used it to launch boats I guess... Anyhow, it had the factory steel wheels on it. The calcium corroded the wheels so badly around the bead, that the wheels actually failed after I owned it a short time. The inner bead blew off on the right rear tire when I was riding at about 30 MPH. (top speed was about 35 on that beast). When the rusty rim let go, it shredded the tire, and the steel cords wrapped around the axle. Full time 4x4 machine. That's about as sudden of a stop as you're going to get short of hitting a block wall head on.

After that incident, new wheels and tires were ordered.

 

[joeymt33]

Sorry fellas for wasting your time. I should have used a smilie to let you guys know that was not a serious comment.

I do have water in the tires of my tractors and one lawnmower.

I had water get into an ATV tire after it came off the bead in a creek. We were cold and hungry so we didn't remove the tire and wheel to get all the water out. That tire would bounce off the ground at 25 mph.

Now I do understand that the above story turned out that way because of the tire having ~25% water and it would not have gotten out of balance at 90% full.

While on this topic, those 40+ pound roctanes I put on will add to the COG.


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