Huston I've got a problem.

[joeymt33]

Check this from @JACKAL, start at post [HASHTAG]#189[/HASHTAG]

P1000 - Jackal's P1000-5


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[Admin]

 

[CumminsPusher]

Check this from @JACKAL, start at post [HASHTAG]#189[/HASHTAG]

P1000 - Jackal's P1000-5


Sent from my iPad 7G

Wow this is weird. Good description though. The line of questioning I was getting at was clutches but...
That wouldn't be the same speed every time wouldn't be that constant

 

[joeymt33]

Wow this is weird. Good description though. The line of questioning I was getting at was clutches but...
That wouldn't be the same speed every time wouldn't be that constant

But! Jackal did have a clutch failure. Could they be related?


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[CumminsPusher]

But! Jackal did have a clutch failure. Could they be related?


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I don't know but sure sounded like clutch slipping in a high gear to me. That's why I was asking about hanging revs.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I've driven a lot of DCT cars but I'm sure they feel different then manual at the start of failing but manuals usually slip higher gears first due to the drive ratio up there it takes more power to accelerate and especially with a big or heavy tire. I've never felt a DCT slip so I'm not positive just asking questions.

 

[Tot]

Are those speeds consistent every time or do they very a little each run? Will engine revs stay up the whole time it's dropping?

Speeds are consistently. 54-56 usually

RPMs are around 6-7000. When I add gas it cuts out or surges till I let off. The RPMs drop some when it surges. Then I can maintain whatever speed it drops to but not able to go faster after that.

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[Tot]

Mine sounds similar to Jackals

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[Gator]

Are the front tires the same size as the back? (they look bigger in the photo)

 

[CumminsPusher]

Mine sounds similar to Jackals

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It sounds a lot like the problems @JACKAL had I'm a little concerned tot. Have you done a service yet? Have you tried switching back yet?

 

[Tot]

It sounds a lot like the problems @JACKAL had I'm a little concerned tot. Have you done a service yet? Have you tried switching back yet?

It had its 1st service in march a couple weeks after I bought it. It has 360 miles on it now. I haven't had time to take the snorkel off and put the stock intake back together.

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[Tot]

Are the front tires the same size as the back? (they look bigger in the photo)

They are the same

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[Tot]

Are the front tires the same size as the back? (they look bigger in the photo)

Well the outlaws were 11 in the rear and 9.5 in the front

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[JACKAL]

Speeds are consistently. 54-56 usually

RPMs are around 6-7000. When I add gas it cuts out or surges till I let off. The RPMs drop some when it surges. Then I can maintain whatever speed it drops to but not able to go faster after that.

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@Tot I had this issue when going from the OEM 25.5" actual (27" Bighorn 2) tires to 30x10x14 Roctane XD tires on all four corners that were 30.4" actual. This also jumped the tire weight from approximately 28# per tire to 44# per tire. What I believe caused the machine to limit the speed was a combination of the computer sensing an excessive load on the drive line & the tires at speed were rubbing in straight line on the outer most black plastic at 40+ mph. On that same day I switched back and forth from OEM to the 30" Roctane tires 3 times that day. With OEM it immediately went back to running 66 mph and ran / revved normally. When I put the heavy 30" tires back on it refused to go faster than 51 mph and surged like either out of air or bouncing off rev limiter each time. Each time went back to OEM ran perfect.

I ended up going to 28x10x14 Roctane XD that are 28.4" actual height no rubbing and weighed 10# per tire less than the 30" version. With the 28" it maxes out at about 60 mph and does not surge at all.

The on board computers take many readings 14 different ones alone just to determine when to shift and engage and disengage the clutch. In short I think what you are experiencing is the machines electronics responding to a drive train load heavier than it is programmed for, much like all the new diesel trucks you can program new transmission shift points, how harsh it will shift etc. I don't think your machine is going bad. It is we just don't have the technology available to us yet to reprogram the computers to adapt to the changes in the tire sizes and weights many of us are experimenting with.

 

[CumminsPusher]

I knew you'd have a good answer.

 

[JACKAL]

Also to note, the computer kind of adapts to how it is being driven, the anomaly may not immediately be experienced but within a short period of driving the electronics react to the increased load.

Example you tend to drive real easy it will start up shifting at lower rpm, you drive more aggressively it will start shifting at a little higher rpm based on what the computer anticipates how you want to drive. It is pretty fuzzy logic. But that is my experience with it.

Also when I had clutch issues I was running OEM tires, only drove the 30" for 40 miles testing them. By the time I got the 28" tires the clutch was shuddering on takeoff and revving 2k rpm higher into to 3rd & 5th gear only. One thing had nothing to do with the other.

 

[Mountie]

Just a shot in the dark here, Jackal. Speaking of adaptation of the ECM, I wonder if a battery disconnect for 10min would reset the adaptation parameters?

 

[CumminsPusher]

This is a weird thing to me. I understand how heavier tires effect a vehicle but it's crazy on this that it could come down to electronics. It seams weird that the motor would rev like it does. Again thank you for your thoughts Jackal as that helps tremendously. I wonder if there is a way around this because like @Tot im planning on running a heavy ply truck tire for longevity during the dry months.

 

[JACKAL]

Just a shot in the dark here, Jackal. Speaking of adaptation of the ECM, I wonder if a battery disconnect for 10min would reset the adaptation parameters?

Not sure that does any good, it will still return to acting in response to the load on the system if too heavy a tire combination is still ran.

Could try a clutch initialization procedure as in shop manual, but I did it 3x as well. Dint change anything.

Neither is the solution, the solution is to program the ecm for the specific tire combination. Unless you have good friends in HRC or HPD good luck with that.

 

[Mountie]

Agreed, Jackal. Changing torque and load targets is something that would could possibly never see with this platform, unfortunately.

 

[joeymt33]

Here ya go boys. Testing this was a nice getaway to get out of the office for a few minutes. This video shows bad bouncing from the tires and a decent top speed. I have probably one of the heaviest pioneers out there, and it still seems to perform great. I am not sure what actual speed is. Maybe I should go check it.

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