P500 Money Tight - But Need Upgrade

[lukebuz]

Hi all! I have an issue that's bugged me for some time, but haven't spent the money to fix. Hoping everyone can give me a few pointers.

We use the P500 (2017) on our wooded property. We live in a very very rocky area, and the trails are very rough. There is some erosion making dips in the trails, along with typically sloped wooded land, but the biggest issue is rocks and roots jutting out everywhere.

We have a 2017 Rancher 420, and it's a pleasure to drive on the trails. Sure, there are bumps - but it handles them SO MUCH BETTER than the P500.
The P500 is so rough! It tosses you back and forth, front to back so much, it kind of sucks driving on the trails. One of my young kids took a forward header to the dash when his grip slipped. I mean, we aren't racing - just 1st or 2nd gear, slow going since it's so rough. 6-8 mph.

Finally, to my question. We are single income, 2 kids. I can justify an expensive purchase if it's going to make a big difference. But I'm not in the position to drop $1,500 just to get a small incremental improvement.

On my stock (only swaybar removed - thanks forum!) P500, what would help our family get a more tolerable ride on the trials? Shock upgrade? New wheels/tires? Nothing wrong with the P500, it's smooth and stable on flat ground, but just SO bad on the bumps.

Can y'all give me any pointers?

 

[dls1966]

Have you tried adjusting your shocks ,it might help

 

[Red500]

Taller tires with more side wall helps a little.

 

[SILVER_ALERT]

Our place also has a lot of rough trails, but not much rocky stuff. Removing the sway bar did help a little. I have been running about 8 or 9 PSI in the front tires, and 7 - 8 rears which also helped a bit. I thought about the softer shock adjustment, but there are already a few spots where I bottom out if I am not careful. I don't want to spring for high $$$ shocks either, so I think I will go with taller tires (and spacers) when I wear out the ones I have now. I also have a 420 Rancher, and I agree with you that it is a better ride than the P5.

 

[lukebuz]

So, I took 20 mins and adjusted the preload on the stock shocks. I had previously adjusted the rear tighter (up) a notch to the 3rd since I was hauling lumber in the back along with towing a trailer of firewood up a steep hill at the time. I didn't really notice any difference at the time.

However, I took the fronts down a notch and the rear down 2 notches to the lowest all around. Does this actually do anything? I think, maybe, it was a little smoother? It very well could have been the placebo effect though...

I already run all 4 tires at 6-7 PSI, so I don't think I can go any lower there, right?

 

[futzin]

27" tires on 12" wheels (and a wider stance) improved the ride of mine. When it gets rough, I slow down. Am considering a shock upgrade as well.

 

[Vondy]

Beyond removing swaybar and lower tire pressure, there really isn't much more you can do cheap. Larger tires will help and/or upgrade shocks. I run Walker Evans on mine and thought it was a tremendous improvement.

 

[lee]

Adjusting the springs on the stock shocks dose not actually change the ride (until you bottom the suspension).
It just changes the ride height.
I run my springs for max ride height.

I run 26” radial tires (Maxis Bighorn originals) on the stock wheels.
No wheel spacers (they are the devil).
And I tend to run the pressure on the low side, 6~7 psi.
You need to be careful with the low tire pressure as you can pinch the side wall if it is too low.

One day when I hit the lottery I will invest in aftermarket shocks but for now it works pretty good.

 

[Red500]

Ok, I'm going to be that DA. and ask the question. Doesn't rasing the ride hight by adjusting the preload make the spring stiffer and change the ride.

 

[MI-Trailblazer]

Red500- in theory yes. To gain ride height you add pressure to the spring to raise the vehicle. Reduce spring pressure to lower the vehicle. However, that is on a spring that has a much more progressive rate than the stock P5 springs. The P5 spring lack much of any tender-spring, which gives you the good ride quality over the small bumps and dips. That is what you get with aftermarket shocks is a much better spring rate along with a better tuned shock.

This brings us back to the "what you get" vs. "what you paid for it" with Honda. To keep the P5 at that $8K price point, as well as the narrow track-width, not only was a sway-bar added for stability, but spring rates are pretty high to also control body roll and weight at a lower price point. Could Honda have done better? Yes, but the P5 would be over $10k in price most likely.

So lukebuz- the 2 things you have done: 1) disconnect sway bar, 2) lower air pressure in tires is about all you can do without spending money. I thought the biggest improvement to ride quality on my P5 was the 26" radial tires! Probably not as much of an improvement as a set of Walker Evans or Elka's, but very noticeable over stock.

I do wish I would have dropped the money on shocks before I took the P5 to Moab. There were a lot of trail conditions out there that sent the P5 in a side-to-side rocking motion that got pretty violent the faster I was traveling. Better shocks with more dampening would have cured that.

 

[lee]

Ok, I'm going to be that DA. and ask the question. Doesn't rasing the ride hight by adjusting the preload make the spring stiffer and change the ride.

No/yes.
Changing the “preload” on a p500 simply moves the vehicle up on the suspension.
In the range the stock shocks allow you to adjust, the vehicle body simply moves up.
There is no increase in the spring tension.

 

[lukebuz]

If preload doesn't change the tension - why would Honda even offer it? What's the point of making adjustable?

 

[Smitty335]

If preload doesn't change the tension - why would Honda even offer it? What's the point of making adjustable?

BR 549 Honda, call them. The Honda shocks are junk to keep the price point low.

 

[lukebuz]

Red500- in theory yes. To gain ride height you add pressure to the spring to raise the vehicle. Reduce spring pressure to lower the vehicle. However, that is on a spring that has a much more progressive rate than the stock P5 springs. The P5 spring lack much of any tender-spring, which gives you the good ride quality over the small bumps and dips. That is what you get with aftermarket shocks is a much better spring rate along with a better tuned shock.

This brings us back to the "what you get" vs. "what you paid for it" with Honda. To keep the P5 at that $8K price point, as well as the narrow track-width, not only was a sway-bar added for stability, but spring rates are pretty high to also control body roll and weight at a lower price point. Could Honda have done better? Yes, but the P5 would be over $10k in price most likely.

So lukebuz- the 2 things you have done: 1) disconnect sway bar, 2) lower air pressure in tires is about all you can do without spending money. I thought the biggest improvement to ride quality on my P5 was the 26" radial tires! Probably not as much of an improvement as a set of Walker Evans or Elka's, but very noticeable over stock.
.
I do wish I would have dropped the money on shocks before I took the P5 to Moab. There were a lot of trail conditions out there that sent the P5 in a side-to-side rocking motion that got pretty violent the faster I was traveling. Better shocks with more dampening would have cured that.

Well, I've ordered a set of 26" radial BH 2.0's. With new steelie wheel set, came to $850. ≈$900 after tire/rim mounting. Little more than half the price of good shocks. I'll post an update to the thread on my thoughts after I get them installed!

Thanks for the tips and opinions. Worst case, if it doesn't do me what I need, I'll enjoy the small improvement for a few years and save up for shocks down the road...

 

[Santa]

Walker Evans shocks on my 2017 P5 made a huge difference. Agreed, $1200 is a lot to spend, but, in my case was, and is, worth the money.

 

[lukebuz]

Walker Evans shocks on my 2017 P5 made a huge difference. Agreed, $1200 is a lot to spend, but, in my case was, and is, worth the money.

They are $1600 after taxes now!

 

[BWHunter]

Well, I've ordered a set of 26" radial BH 2.0's. With new steelie wheel set, came to $850. ≈$900 after tire/rim mounting. Little more than half the price of good shocks. I'll post an update to the thread on my thoughts after I get them installed!

Thanks for the tips and opinions. Worst case, if it doesn't do me what I need, I'll enjoy the small improvement for a few years and save up for shocks down the road...

I put the 27" tires on mine and noticed a difference. We have some similar terrain where I use my machine. I won't say it made a huge difference but I have not played with the air pressure much either. I think the pressure is set at around 9 lbs. I've got a set of Elka 1's waiting for my next trip up to the property. Hopefully adding the Elkas at least replicates the improvement from the tires. The total cost will be under $2k and hopefully will be well spent.

For me the tires were essential anyway because I was experiencing some clearance issues on our trails. No problems since going to 27".

 

[lukebuz]

Curious, what is your tire width and rim with?
I'm just concerned that my 11-in tires seem hilariously oversized for a 7-in rim. Seems like it could come off the bead...

 

[Splorin]

lukebuz, don’t sweat the 11s on 7s. I have some 12s on 7s. Perfect fit.

 

[Red500]

11 on factory should be fine but I think if you went with 11s for the front I don't think you are going to like that.