i wonder why you never hear or see wolverine shock swaps to pioneer. seems pretty similar size and weight
Stauvo
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I work under a Neurologist performing EMG Nerve conduction tests. Many of you backy’s and carpal tunnels may know what they are. I’ve had 2 back surgeries at L4-L5 with permo damage in both legs. Always rode quads as I could control my body over bumps. Bought a new 97 VMax long travel sled and that winter my back went out forcing me to sell it as I could not adjust fast enough to compensate with legs way out front and curved back. When I got old enough to feel stiff hips on long rides, I handed my son the 500 Forman and got a P1000. It benefits my family also. I looked at SxS options to make sure was not ending up in a sled position and am up right and can have knees bent and feet flat on floor with wiggle room. Keep pressure off the nerve and pain management is the key.
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas!
New to UTV/ATV's so I need some advice. Which do you think would make for a more comfortable trail machine, a Pioneer 500 or and ATV with IRS?
Most of my riding will be on trails, sight seeing, nothing demanding since I have some medical issues with lower body nerve damage. Comfort is most important and sad to say speed is no longer high on my list.
Any and all advice will be appreciated...
Thanks,
Fez24
I’m a 54 year old Paraplegic & my new Pioneer 500 is way more comfortable than my previous 12 atvs.
We only slow-poke around on our P-500, but the addition of the Walker Evans shocks changed the comfort of the ride tremendously over the stock shocks.
Mudder
NTC Ambassador of Walls
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Jacked the wheels up and made it easy to rotate the shocks to the softest setting, helped some along with lower tire psi. Rocky trail riding about 8-10 mph.
alloutdoors
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, on day I can catch someone with Fox/Evans shocks on a P500 for me to try before I buy,
Merry Christmas Mudder, and everyone else too. Haha
Caper
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S
Merry Christmas to all of you and yours...
im 60 have a p 500 us for hunting and plan on little trail riding i love it im disabled lower back diabetes it has been fitting in all trails i have bin onNew to UTV/ATV's so I need some advice. Which do you think would make for a more comfortable trail machine, a Pioneer 500 or and ATV with IRS?
Most of my riding will be on trails, sight seeing, nothing demanding since I have some medical issues with lower body nerve damage. Comfort is most important and sad to say speed is no longer high on my list.
Any and all advice will be appreciated...
Thanks,
Fez24
S
There have been a ton of great recommendations here, and I usually do not post on this forum, as I enjoy reading and learning for the most part. That said, I wanted to give you a different view/option.
I have back issues, and I have owned a 2014 Grizzly 700 (IRS) and my best friend owns a 2016 Honda P500. He also owns a 2016 Honda Foreman Rubicon with IRS as well. I have rode all these, and the Grizzly and the Foreman with IRS is night and day difference in comfort between the P500. I sold my Grizzly, so my buddy stopped riding his Foreman as he had nobody to ride with. So he bought the P500 and we started going on rides with me as the passenger (I did drive a couple times). It is probably the most uncomfortable thing I have ever rode in. We adjusted the shocks to the second to the softest setting, we made sure the tires were are 8 psi... the only time in my opinion it was an "acceptable" ride, is when he was going about 10 mph offroad. Now on a smooth dirt road, yeah he could run 30 mph. Nothing about the ride is "enjoyable". The only reason I would ever get one is for convenience in carrying deer, cargo, and a passenger.
Now let me say, I love Honda, I have owned MANY of their cars, atvs, and lawn mowers. They make great machines for the most part. So as I have got older (about to be 40), I found myself going back to my 1st gen Toyota Tacoma TRD 4x4. I purchased it as a daily driver back in 2007, it was a 2004 Model (crew cab, v6, 4x4, rear factory selectable locking diff). I paid $16k for it (about the same price many people pay for a nice side by side) with 62k miles on it, which is nothing for a Tacoma. An old man owned it before me and babied it, I doubt it was ever even taken offroad. Well after a few years of driving it as a daily driver, I put a 2.5" level kit on it (spacer for the front coilovers) for about $100. The install was super easy and took me only about 2 hours total (1hr 15 mins on the first side, then 45 mins on the 2nd side) to do myself. I then put 285/75r16 (32.6"x11.50) Cooper AT3 all terrain tires on it ($1,000). I then installed a Addicted Offroad front winch tube bumper for a high approach angle as well as being able to mount a 9,000 Engo winch ($300) on it.
Now I don't ride in a state that has 50" trail limitations. In fact most atv or side by side trails here have jeeps that run down them. Over the years, I have taken my Tacoma offroad a LOT. Honestly, there is just sometimes I don't want to be covered in mud, or freezing cold during winter. As the truck became a secondary vehicle and no longer a daily driver, I thought about selling it. Guess what I found out... with only 130k miles (that is NOTHING for a Tacoma), people were only willing to pay me about $8,000 for it and it is in still good condition (no beat up body panels or anything). I kept asking myself, why do I want to sell my Tacoma, with 190 HP, a/c, heater, 5,000 lb tow capacity, rear selectable locker, 9,000 winch, ability to comfortably carry four people (especially compared to any side by side), 1,500 lb payload capacity, 10.8 inches of ground clearance (add in 2" lift, plus going up 2" of tire size for 1" of lift from tire, so now you are at 11.8" of ground clearance assuming rear axle pumpkin is the low spot), street legal (doesn't need a trailer), will last more miles, and take more abuse than ANY side by side made, even with 130k miles on it, if it rolls over, I know MILLIONS of dollars of safety/crash research went into it assuring me and the occupants don't die. Show me a side by side that has more HP, towing capacity, a/c, ground clearance, ride smoother, for under $10,000. Hell even for under $20,000.
I am not even necessarily pushing a Tacoma, or even a Toyota for that matter, you could buy a 1999 or 2000 used Jeep Wrangler 4x4 with a straight six 4.0L and manual trans if you absolutely require that "open top" feel. My buddy is selling a nice condition 1999 Wrangler 4x4 with 4.0L and manual trans that has never been abused offroad and only has 120k miles and he can't get a offer over $6,000 for it. Everything (a/c, heater, radio, etc) works, but its ONLY worth $6,000?! Im sorry but it is WAY more comfortable to ride in a 4x4 vehicle made in the last 20 years versus any side by side. It is cheaper, safer, more powerful, and built way more beefy. My Tacoma can climb up stuff I would never attempt on my Grizzly 700. I just can't stress how it is ALL AROUND a better idea. I am not saying Tacoma 4x4 are lying around everywhere for a good price, but if you keep your eye open for a few months, you will stumble across them on craigslist from time to time. Same thing with a Jeep Wrangler. You could also look for 1997 to 2002 4runners. Suzuki samurai is the original side by side, but to be honest most are so beat up, that I would stay away from them, unless you find one that someone never offroaded with lower miles or fully restored and obviously dropped some money into. I just can't understand why people spend $20k on a side by side when there are 4x4 vehicles out there that will annihilate a side by side in every way for the same amount of money.
I have back issues, and I have owned a 2014 Grizzly 700 (IRS) and my best friend owns a 2016 Honda P500. He also owns a 2016 Honda Foreman Rubicon with IRS as well. I have rode all these, and the Grizzly and the Foreman with IRS is night and day difference in comfort between the P500. I sold my Grizzly, so my buddy stopped riding his Foreman as he had nobody to ride with. So he bought the P500 and we started going on rides with me as the passenger (I did drive a couple times). It is probably the most uncomfortable thing I have ever rode in. We adjusted the shocks to the second to the softest setting, we made sure the tires were are 8 psi... the only time in my opinion it was an "acceptable" ride, is when he was going about 10 mph offroad. Now on a smooth dirt road, yeah he could run 30 mph. Nothing about the ride is "enjoyable". The only reason I would ever get one is for convenience in carrying deer, cargo, and a passenger.
Now let me say, I love Honda, I have owned MANY of their cars, atvs, and lawn mowers. They make great machines for the most part. So as I have got older (about to be 40), I found myself going back to my 1st gen Toyota Tacoma TRD 4x4. I purchased it as a daily driver back in 2007, it was a 2004 Model (crew cab, v6, 4x4, rear factory selectable locking diff). I paid $16k for it (about the same price many people pay for a nice side by side) with 62k miles on it, which is nothing for a Tacoma. An old man owned it before me and babied it, I doubt it was ever even taken offroad. Well after a few years of driving it as a daily driver, I put a 2.5" level kit on it (spacer for the front coilovers) for about $100. The install was super easy and took me only about 2 hours total (1hr 15 mins on the first side, then 45 mins on the 2nd side) to do myself. I then put 285/75r16 (32.6"x11.50) Cooper AT3 all terrain tires on it ($1,000). I then installed a Addicted Offroad front winch tube bumper for a high approach angle as well as being able to mount a 9,000 Engo winch ($300) on it.
Now I don't ride in a state that has 50" trail limitations. In fact most atv or side by side trails here have jeeps that run down them. Over the years, I have taken my Tacoma offroad a LOT. Honestly, there is just sometimes I don't want to be covered in mud, or freezing cold during winter. As the truck became a secondary vehicle and no longer a daily driver, I thought about selling it. Guess what I found out... with only 130k miles (that is NOTHING for a Tacoma), people were only willing to pay me about $8,000 for it and it is in still good condition (no beat up body panels or anything). I kept asking myself, why do I want to sell my Tacoma, with 190 HP, a/c, heater, 5,000 lb tow capacity, rear selectable locker, 9,000 winch, ability to comfortably carry four people (especially compared to any side by side), 1,500 lb payload capacity, 10.8 inches of ground clearance (add in 2" lift, plus going up 2" of tire size for 1" of lift from tire, so now you are at 11.8" of ground clearance assuming rear axle pumpkin is the low spot), street legal (doesn't need a trailer), will last more miles, and take more abuse than ANY side by side made, even with 130k miles on it, if it rolls over, I know MILLIONS of dollars of safety/crash research went into it assuring me and the occupants don't die. Show me a side by side that has more HP, towing capacity, a/c, ground clearance, ride smoother, for under $10,000. Hell even for under $20,000.
I am not even necessarily pushing a Tacoma, or even a Toyota for that matter, you could buy a 1999 or 2000 used Jeep Wrangler 4x4 with a straight six 4.0L and manual trans if you absolutely require that "open top" feel. My buddy is selling a nice condition 1999 Wrangler 4x4 with 4.0L and manual trans that has never been abused offroad and only has 120k miles and he can't get a offer over $6,000 for it. Everything (a/c, heater, radio, etc) works, but its ONLY worth $6,000?! Im sorry but it is WAY more comfortable to ride in a 4x4 vehicle made in the last 20 years versus any side by side. It is cheaper, safer, more powerful, and built way more beefy. My Tacoma can climb up stuff I would never attempt on my Grizzly 700. I just can't stress how it is ALL AROUND a better idea. I am not saying Tacoma 4x4 are lying around everywhere for a good price, but if you keep your eye open for a few months, you will stumble across them on craigslist from time to time. Same thing with a Jeep Wrangler. You could also look for 1997 to 2002 4runners. Suzuki samurai is the original side by side, but to be honest most are so beat up, that I would stay away from them, unless you find one that someone never offroaded with lower miles or fully restored and obviously dropped some money into. I just can't understand why people spend $20k on a side by side when there are 4x4 vehicles out there that will annihilate a side by side in every way for the same amount of money.
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I put around 60000 miles on my truck every year ...get around 5 years out of it and its worn out I bought my p500 knowing that I would have it for years to come not to mention if I drove my truck the places that I take my sxs chances are that there would be days where I would have to take my wife's car to work cause the truck is being repaired
All I miss out on if I broke my pioneer is a day on the trails
Its not that my truck won't go there but I need it to pay for toys
All I miss out on if I broke my pioneer is a day on the trails
Its not that my truck won't go there but I need it to pay for toys
NTCPrezJB
President of #NTC
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You're talking about a 14 year old truck versus a brand new SxS. You know you can buy SxS's used as well, right?
NTCPrezJB
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There isn't a rollover test for street vehicles that I'm aware. There is a test related to preventing rollovers, but I don't think there is a safety test related to the aftermath of rollovers. I could be wrong and please correct me if you know otherwise. If you don't put in a roll cage you better not roll that truck over is my suggestion (especially multiple times). I've seen what a Jeep Cherokee looks like after it got to the bottom of a hill at the hands of a dumbass. They aren't rated for that and it certainly was never going to be rolling down the street again legally afterward. I wouldn't exactly suggest rolling your SxS either, but I've seen that as well. The SxS is going to fare better.
NTCPrezJB
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Your HP comment is also pretty bogus when you start to compare the weights of the vehicles. The Talon at 104 hp and 1,500-ish pounds is going to kill your Tacoma at 190 hp and 3,700-ish pounds.
trigger
Old Ironsides
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Yeah, there was a lot of holes in that post. No Tacoma, Wrangler or Samurai is going to fit on the trails I run. On the wider ones I've watched them take turns fighting it up a deeply rutted hill and after all the drama I just straddled their ruts and putted up that hill. They're two totally different sports.
S
I am not talking about using your daily driver as your offroad vehicle. I am talking about buying a truck, suv or jeep INSTEAD of a side by side and using it as a dedicated offroad toy instead of the side by side. The biggest issue here was comfort. Fact is, no side by side or atv is going to be as easy on your back, legs, hips or anything else as a actual vehicle, and with a few mods, there are many vehicles that will perform just as well as a side by side offroad, assuming you don't have width restrictions.
Yes but once again, a side by side is not going to be as comfortable as a used 14 year old truck, and that is what he was asking about. Plus 85% of used side by sides, have usually had the heck beat out of them, at least where I live. You have no idea if someone drove it through deep water and sucked in sandy water into the engine and then drained the oil and put fresh oil in, then sell it. If you see a 68 year old man (as the case with my truck I bought for $8,900) who is using the truck to just tow his 14' aluminum john boat to the lake a few times a month, and maybe to the occasional hardware store to pick up stuff, its obvious it has not been abused.
The NHTSA and IIHS both rate and test vehicles to see at what point they roll over, not what happens once they roll, so you are correct, my mistake. Toyota does spend a lot of money doing research and development on what they call "lock pillar reinforcements" in the pillars of all their vehicles. This includes them testing them to insure that in the unfortunate circumstance the vehicle was to roll over at a given speed (they do not disclose what that speed is) that the reinforcements should prevent occupants from being crushed to death. I am not advocating not having a roll cage in a vehicle that you might flip, because you absolutely should, but I willing to bet if you flipped 10 different Tacomas over and 10 different side by sides over, the occupants of the side by sides would sustain more injuries in general. I see people at offroad parks get hurt all the time when side by sides flip. I have also seen many vehicles without roll cages roll over (at slower speeds which correlate with the style of offroading where I live) and I have never seen anyone to date get seriously injured. Getting back to the original point though, no side by side, or atv is going to ride smoother than a 4x4 equipped with coil springs at least up front.
2005 Toyota Tundra Regular Cab 4.7L V8 4x4:
Width: 75.2" (Talon is 68.4", that is less than 3.5" on each side)
Horsepower: 282
Ft Lbs Torque: 325
Curb Weight: 4,550 lbs
So at almost 300 HP (triple the horsepower of the talon) and 4500 lbs (triple the weight of the talon) that is almost identical horsepower to weight ratios. How much does a new Talon cost? You can find those trucks for under 10k all day. Also if it was dedicated offroad vehicle, you could easily strip some of the weight off there to get it down even lower and increase the weight to horsepower ratio. But once again, the guy who started this thread spoke of "comfort". I 100% guarantee no side by side will ride as smooth as a Tacoma (or Tundra) offroad. I am assuming since he is looking at a P500 or a ATV that maybe price is something that is taken into consideration. I am simply saying there is smoother 4x4 options in that same price range. This was not meant to be a HP to weight ratio war between a truck and side by side. If it was though, I would still argue that you could further slap a TRD supercharger on a Tacoma (or even a Tundra) and be under the price range of some new side by sides. Now, if you have tight trails where you run, where only a atv or P500 can go, then no, the options I recommend won't work. Where we offroad (Texas), you can at least drive a jeep wrangler down every trail. Some trails are big enough to drive a lifted F250 diesel down.
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