i played with a jeep about the first ten years, pioneer reminds me alot of it actually, we have a ton of mud and tight trails, but any of those jeeps or trucks, only went as fast as the suspension will allow, which isnt much even on modified ones you are putting around like you have to do on a pioneer. your comparing really to the worst riding ones, there are a hundred other quads and utvs that you can leave the trucks in the dust while being comfortable. the outlander was the best for hills, grizzy is soft but too short. outlander max is wide and long has a ton of power rides decent, one of the best really, i just didnt like the maintenance, mine went 72 over just about what ever you want and you could go maybe 10 with the jeep over the same crap