C
Chooglin
Guest
1" spacers will work just fine with 5+2 wheels , wich is what you have if I recall.
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C
Chooglin
Guest
Installed the rear shocks tonight.
I took it for a short ride and my first impression is not good.These HD springs are way to stiff !!!!! I am just hoping they loosen up , otherwise I will need to swap out the springs.
After installing them , I let the floor jack down and these springs did not compress at all , from the weight of the machine.I gained 1 13/16 clearance in the rear !!
I love the feel of the fronts but very disappointed in the rears JMO
The brackets worked out nice and at this point there are no issues with them. I need to put more miles on it and see how it goes !!!
I took it for a short ride and my first impression is not good.These HD springs are way to stiff !!!!! I am just hoping they loosen up , otherwise I will need to swap out the springs.
After installing them , I let the floor jack down and these springs did not compress at all , from the weight of the machine.I gained 1 13/16 clearance in the rear !!
I love the feel of the fronts but very disappointed in the rears JMO
The brackets worked out nice and at this point there are no issues with them. I need to put more miles on it and see how it goes !!!
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ehart814
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
My guess is that it feels stiff because the lower shock mount is moved so far out from the pivot point. Less mechanical advantage to compress that heavy spring. Seems a lower spring rate will be needed. Sorry you had to find out the hard way.
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ehart814
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
Also @Chooglin - the setup looks awesome. It's very clean and I'm very impressed with your design and fab work.
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C
Chooglin
Guest
I don't know , I would think that would give it more leverage..........I need to change something , this is just to stiff for my liking !
C
Chooglin
Guest
Hmmmm, I now doubt that 429 will be good too. Ok, guys Chooglin, Cris, Jak , any thoughts??
May be 425 Standard???
May be 425 Standard???
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You are absolutely right that now Chooglin has less leverage , I finally got back home and now , got a heavy s*** off my shoulders , my boards , so now I can think about anything I want.
So I draw a pic and the closer you get to the wheel the less leverage you have. With Chris C his upper point was closer to the center so he gained more leverage that way so HD is working for him better but not so much as he like also. So my guess is 429 might be a bit ok , but 425 will be plush for sure.
Found few excerpts from forums:
- " You want the top and bottom shock mounts as close as possible to the arc that the suspended end (the axle) would normally travel when it hits a bump. Normally, this is pretty close to vertical, but with the top end leaning inboard ~5-10 degrees.
The reason for this is that their effectiveness decreases proportionally to the cosine of the angle between the shock and that arc of travel."
- here is an educational video and claculations
Coilover Spring Rate Calculator (Dual Rate Spring Calculator)
-- " In other words the rear end moves forward slightly as the suspension compresses so the shock would be straight up and down at full compression. Just a guess. I do know that the greater the angle the shock is at the less effective it is. ie, a shock mounted at 45 degrees is only like 50% effective compared to one mounted completely vertical."
---- Just as leverage between wheel and shock (created by where we mount the shock) can create a difference between wheel travel and shock travel, so to does the angle at which we mount the shock. That is, the angle at which me mount the shock creates a difference between wheel travel and shock travel.
--------------------------------------------------------------
If we mounted the shock vertically, (at an angle of 0° from vertical) then there would be no difference between shock travel and wheel travel.
For every inch the wheel goes up, the shock compresses one inch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Using a ludicrously extreme example for illustrative purposes:
if we mounted the shock laying flat (at an angle of 90° to vertical) then shock travel would equal 0, regardless of wheel travel.
In this configuration, no matter how much the wheel travels vertically, the shock would just pivot on its mountings, but wouldn't compress at all.
Although this example is completely impractical, it demonstrates that as the angle increases the shock travel decreases compared to wheel travel.
--------------------------------------------------------------
If we mount the shock at 45° from vertical, the relationship between shock travel and wheel travel is not so immediately apparent, although we know it depends on the angle, and we know the shock travel will be something less than the wheel travel.
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C
Chooglin
Guest
At this point I don't know what I'm going to do. I do know that I don't like this setup , so I need to change something..........this setup is not going to work for me !
i think ehart814 is right. Less mechanical advantage
If you took a 12 ft plank and picked it up from the ground on one end.
First you put a 75lb weight right on the end of plank where you pick it up. It would take good effort to lift the plank on that end
Next move the 75lb weight to the 6 ft mark or center of plank. Lift again. There is less effort to lift the load.
This is the same as the tire moving up when you hit a bump. It takes less effort overcome a shock/spring at the midway part of the a arm than at the point by the wheel...smoother (at least with the same spring rate)
We have 10" long a-arm that has the stock shock mount at 6" from inner pivot point . Moving the mount to 9" from the pivot point will change things a bit. Just like the plank example.
You'll also see more travel of the shock on outside mount
the shock angle has been roughly the same on all examples we've seen
just for a laugh, try the stock shocks .You ride height will be lower but you'll see how that spring rate rides ?
id guess 429's like solrus has would be a good setup?
send them over to him to try solrus !
If you took a 12 ft plank and picked it up from the ground on one end.
First you put a 75lb weight right on the end of plank where you pick it up. It would take good effort to lift the plank on that end
Next move the 75lb weight to the 6 ft mark or center of plank. Lift again. There is less effort to lift the load.
This is the same as the tire moving up when you hit a bump. It takes less effort overcome a shock/spring at the midway part of the a arm than at the point by the wheel...smoother (at least with the same spring rate)
We have 10" long a-arm that has the stock shock mount at 6" from inner pivot point . Moving the mount to 9" from the pivot point will change things a bit. Just like the plank example.
You'll also see more travel of the shock on outside mount
the shock angle has been roughly the same on all examples we've seen
just for a laugh, try the stock shocks .You ride height will be lower but you'll see how that spring rate rides ?
id guess 429's like solrus has would be a good setup?
send them over to him to try solrus !
C
Chooglin
Guest
This is all very good input guys.
I guess this is the types of things you discover (trial and error) when you do these mods.
I really think , if I can find a softer spring , this will work for me!
I guess this is the types of things you discover (trial and error) when you do these mods.
I really think , if I can find a softer spring , this will work for me!
C
Chooglin
Guest
I am going to try to return these HD springs and hunt down a set of SD springs. If that doesn't work , I am going back to stock !
I found only one in stock with standard spring. I would send mine to Chooglin but I'm thinking about returning them too. Or I have to go the route Jak and Chris did with new upper mount.
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C
Chooglin
Guest
I think this is the best thing to do at this point. My setup is not looking good !
ehart814
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Club Contributor
After all the work you did, I don't think you should give up on it. If you can't find softer springs, there may be other shocks that will bolt right in... There has to be some solution.
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