P500 p5 suspension

[JWB]

went on a 60 mile ride sat went down a trail that was so washed out from the heavy winter that the machine was sliding against the door and lower roll cage tubing in places i dropped one side and it leveled out the machine other places it did not matter the ruts were well over a foot deep, the machine could not tip over because the wheels were against the side of the rut. the air ride worked well didnt rip out any air lines i am going to change up to 1/4 air lines to the wye of each corner to see if i can speed up the reaction time when i make radical changes in height to one side or the other of the machine when i dropped air the other guys in the group thought that they were having tire blow outs until they remembered about my suspension it was a lot of work to manipulate it in the middle of the rut i would be cool if it could react faster i have been looking at hydraulic and air cylinders to see if they might react faster and to see if they would work as the suspension using air pressure only. always got to be fiddling with the machine, a guy at work says why dont you just ride it. i know one thing for sure i am going to get taller tires with more edge grip as soon as i get some money saved up. ground clearance is the key thing on one of these machines when you get into rough trails. i didnt get a video of the trail i was too busy getting thru it. it was a blast. we did not have time to go back up it on the way back home. before i go on the cruise this fall i will get your phone number and give you a call if i get any where near where you live.

bikeman

Sounds brutal..... Love it! Taller tires, a bit more width= Big Difference. I'm pretty happy with the rip-saws so far. It sounds like some bigger diameter air lines may actually work better for your terrain and riding style- maybe. I am still concerned that the added volume would degrade shock 'control' on faster rides, and force you to run higher pressures to compensate, and have the shocks topping out a lot. These shocks don't have any snubbers or dampers to protect them when they reach full extension, which is why you can hear the 'clank' when they top out. Did you install the air tank? I think, if you had a 2 gal. air tank inflated to 200psi, you would get very fast response from the system when you open valves, and would have enough volume to bring everything up before the compressor would have to kick in. My .5 gal tank isn't big enough for me - I have to wait for the compressor to top everything up when I do the 'hillside' thing too. Another way to speed up response would be to install electric air valves close to the shocks, (along with the tank) and then you could run the larger diameter lines to the valves, and, one more valve between the the shocks (side to side) that would allow a bigger diameter line for faster, or less restricted articulation as well. Ya, we do tend to get carried away... "just ride it" PAH!!!

 

[Admin]

 

[jak9922]

well im back into this after sitting back and watching i seen many ppl with the air shocks fail both get punctcher holes and complete failer with the shocks pulling apart heres the bare bones run down air shocks are not ment for hard off roading period amd when you need 4 shocks on the front to be less then equal to only 2 true coilovers well then there is your proof ive started the convo and ending the debate here well over a year in of hard riding ive yet to touch anything on the coil overs no adjustments no nothing i dont need to check air pressure need to worry about them going flat and need a compressor capable of pushing high psi blah blah sure if you ride slow and easy you probably wont have an issue with the air shocks but if you actually like to ride and push the machine there is only 1 choice and that the true shocks for an off road machine COILOVERS!!!!

 

[JWB]

well im back into this after sitting back and watching i seen many ppl with the air shocks fail both get punctcher holes and complete failer with the shocks pulling apart heres the bare bones run down air shocks are not ment for hard off roading period amd when you need 4 shocks on the front to be less then equal to only 2 true coilovers well then there is your proof ive started the convo and ending the debate here well over a year in of hard riding ive yet to touch anything on the coil overs no adjustments no nothing i dont need to check air pressure need to worry about them going flat and need a compressor capable of pushing high psi blah blah sure if you ride slow and easy you probably wont have an issue with the air shocks but if you actually like to ride and push the machine there is only 1 choice and that the true shocks for an off road machine COILOVERS!!!!

First off- there is no debate. Nor is this a competition. This is all just for fun. I haven't seen any post about 'blown air shocks', or shocks pulling apart on this forum. I have a very slow leak on one of mine after almost 700 miles of absolute and purposeful abuse. For $35 bucks and 15 minutes of my time I'll swap it out. So what? We all have different riding styles, and therefore different suspension requirements, or just 'wants'. Saying that one style of equipment is the only one needed for any type of "hard off-roading" is short sighted at best. What about rock crawling? What about load compensation? What about just having fun and taking personal pride in building a really cool system of our own design? I'm glad that your coil-over set up works perfectly for you- that's awesome! Coil-overs will not do what I want to do with my machine. Period. Making 'adjustments' or 'tweaking' my suspension on the fly, is half the fun of riding- for me. I thought this forum was for bringing and sharing new ideas, mods, and the enthusiasm and camaraderie that goes along with it. Did I miss something?

 

[pFive]

One guy on facebook had one break off, it looks like he ran a single shock and kept the PSI so high it kept over extending. Single shock is a bad idea, however running an over sized spring /shock from a heavier vehicle can cause it to bounce and flop over on it's side... even a Jeep. I have found zero shortcomings with the double air shocks. I think some people just don't want to do the tiny bit of work to install a pair on each side so they go the easy way out, maybe it's intimidating? Others have never even seen them in person or tried them and like to sit back and fling poo.

 

[JWB]

One guy on facebook had one break off, it looks like he ran a single shock and kept the PSI so high it kept over extending. Single shock is a bad idea, however running an over sized spring /shock from a heavier vehicle can cause it to bounce and flop over on it's side... even a Jeep. I have found zero shortcomings with the double air shocks. I think some people just don't want to do the tiny bit of work to install a pair on each side so they go the easy way out, maybe it's intimidating? Others have never even seen them in person or tried them and like to sit back and fling poo.

I'm glad yours aren't having problems. I'm still having a blast with mine, and I have to agree with you- haven't encountered any shortcomings in performance either. I see the air suspension set up as an on-going project. I like the project. It's fun. I never thought this thread was a debate over suspension choice/style, just a really cool place to share ideas, successes, and even failures, and have fun doing it. There are people who could break an anvil if you left them alone with it, and that's just the way it is. I guess if enough people want to debate the pros and cons of all the different types of suspension, someone could start a new thread. I still love sharing my ideas, and answering questions, and just talking about my experiences along the way.

 

[JWB]

Well, I just finished replacing two CV boots, one of the steering boots, several torn out skid plate bolts and the one leaking shock. I found a couple issues when I took everything apart that I think is important to share with all you guys that have done suspension mods- coilover, or air. I had two control arm bolts that are being 'sawed' through, and one of the holes in the frame mount for the control arms is being 'ovalled-out ( that's 'wallered-out' for us southerners), and one of the frame mounts is(was) being drilled through by the little teeth in the end of the bushing. These issues might be being caused by the increased motion that the control arms are seeing because of the shock change- coilover, or air shocks. So regardless of the type of shock mod you've done, you guys should check for these issues.
Now back to the leaking shock. I inspected the shock carefully and found that dirt gets packed under the air bladder, and essentially pulls it away from the tube it's sealed to. By 'dirt' I mean more like very fine dust that slowly built up the way it does when there's a small amount of oil residue on a piece of equipment that builds up slowly over time. It gets packed very hard as the air bladder rolls over it repeatedly. I had to scrape it out, and it was only about 1/16" thick. I have a feeling this is what causes these shocks to develop slow leaks in an automotive application as well. So here's some suggestions. First, jack up the machine so the shocks are fully extended. Hose em out, and maybe spray something like simple green up under the shell, and then get in there with a bristle brush and get them really clean, and rinse well. Installing shock 'boots' might be a good, or maybe a permanent solution. I have extra shocks, so I might try making some type of 'scraper seal' . At this point, keeping crap from building up is going to help, and keep in mind I've gotten about 700 miles on these shocks, with just this one leaking very slowly.
When I reassembled everything after replacing the CV boots, I greased the control arm bolts, and only tightened them to the point that they are just slightly snug to the frame mounts, and not squeezing the hell out the the mount and bushing(like they were), so that the arm can pivot on the bolt freely without chewing into the mount, and also not trying to pivot the bolt in the frame mounts, which should stop the sawing through thing. I'm ordering all new bolts and nuts today, and I'll change them before I go to H/M trails in the fall. I forgot to mention that all the notable wear is on the front end- almost nothing on the rear.

 

[JWB]

How do I start a new thread? I'd like to put all the info I've gathered on the air suspension in one place.

 

[jak9922]

How do I start a new thread? I'd like to put all the info I've gathered on the air suspension in one place.

click on create new thread

 

[JWB]

click on create new thread

I don't see that option anywhere on this page- I'm using firefox as my browser- maybe that's an issue......?

 

[Neohio]

Scroll back to top of this page. Click "Pioneer accessories amd modifications. Once that loads, you will see the button for post new thread.

 

[JWB]

Scroll back to top of this page. Click "Pioneer accessories amd modifications. Once that loads, you will see the button for post new thread.

Thanks! Got it!

 

[JWB]

Have any of you air-shock guys installed any kind of covers/boots on the shocks yet?

 

[JWB]

Just ordered the 200psi compressor,(thanks bikeman) a 200psi switch, and a 2.5 gallon air tank. That should speed things up a bit

 

[JWB]

As of today, I have the new compressor, tank, and pressure switch. Forgot to say that I got it all from Jeg's- lowest price and free shipping. Gonna try to do the install tomorrow. I'm hoping I can mount the tank, and the compressor under the seat, or possibly mount the compressor the same way bikeman did but I'm really hoping to mount it all down low near middle of machine- the tank and pump weigh 26 lbs... Either way, it will free up the space for a Choog-box, and a little more space under the hood for other cool stuff to blow my money on which of course, I shouldn't do, buuuuttttt...... see my signature line..... so it's not my fault!

 

[jak9922]

As of today, I have the new compressor, tank, and pressure switch. Forgot to say that I got it all from Jeg's- lowest price and free shipping. Gonna try to do the install tomorrow. I'm hoping I can mount the tank, and the compressor under the seat, or possibly mount the compressor the same way bikeman did but I'm really hoping to mount it all down low near middle of machine- the tank and pump weigh 26 lbs... Either way, it will free up the space for a Choog-box, and a little more space under the hood for other cool stuff to blow my money on which of coarse, I shouldn't do, buuuuttttt...... see my signature line..... so it's not my fault!

that is still aton work and parts for an air suspension that is still not on par with coilovers as far as maintenance and install and forget ...... but props for keeping at it btw over a year and 2k brutal miles i havent had to add air or adjust my coilovers but just throwing that out there

 

[JWB]

that is still aton work and parts for an air suspension that is still not on par with coilovers as far as maintenance and install and forget ...... but props for keeping at it btw over a year and 2k brutal miles i havent had to add air or adjust my coilovers but just throwing that out there

Have you checked the pivot points on your control arms yet? Anyone with suspension mods needs to check due to the extra travel the control arms see now.

 

[JWB]

When I get tired of playing with my air suspension, I'll buy a set of the bolt in Walker Evans shocks, and just bolt them in to my unmodified shock mounts. Honda Pioneer 500 Piggyback/Remote Res Shocks - Walker Evans Racing

 

[JWB]

I finished installing the new air compressor and air tank today. I thought I would be able to get the tank under the seat.... no way! It's ginormous. I ended up putting it on the cargo rack in front of my box. Only had to move box back about 3". I made a small mount plate, and some slight mods to the power steering mount, and was able to mount the new compressor behind the radiator, soooo Choog- we need to talk about that box! Of course I forgot to take pictures, but I'll post some tomorrow. The new compressor is incredibly quiet- I can't hear it over the engine at anything over idle. That was a pleasant surprise, cuz the tiny compressor I just took out, sounded like an airplane under the hood. And of course, with 2.5 gallons of 200psi air, the suspension adjusts, and/or recovers very quickly after dropping one side for a cross-hill maneuver, or after dropping the front end for a really steep climb, and will now put all four corners up on it's 'tippy-toes' for maximum ground clearance- without waiting. All in all, a very nice refinement to the system.

 

[trigger]

Wow, learned a valuable lesson on suspension yesterday! After mounting the spare I cranked the rear shocks one more notch which maxed them out. Occasionally you have those 'oh sh**' moments where you don't see it until you're in it, was following a P1k yesterday, @Remington , and pushed the little 5 pretty good to keep up. Got into a short wasted spot on the trail at speed, never saw it coming, rear end was violently bucking, wife was wearing the full harness and I was wearing the lap belt which held me down from bouncing off the roof. Took about three good hops and in the middle of it I felt like I had lost control. Taking that notch back out of the rear as bottoming out would have been better than that. It was ugly!

 

[Remington]

Wow, learned a valuable lesson on suspension yesterday! After mounting the spare I cranked the rear shocks one more notch which maxed them out. Occasionally you have those 'oh sh**' moments where you don't see it until you're in it, was following a P1k yesterday, @Remington , and pushed the little 5 pretty good to keep up. Got into a short wasted spot on the trail at speed, never saw it coming, rear end was violently bucking, wife was wearing the full harness and I was wearing the lap belt which held me down from bouncing off the roof. Took about three good hops and in the middle of it I felt like I had lost control. Taking that notch back out of the rear as bottoming out would have been better than that. It was ugly!

Yes you did! I didn't think you were going to follow me up that short cut and Take the curve lol. Rhonda took the P1K5 up that one time and got some mega air! Glad you guys made it ok! Made for some fun talks afterwards.