P700 Quit,Won't Start

[Reaver]

Hey all. I'm in the Jungles of Costa Rica with limited resources, like good internet.

2014 P700-4, so single spark etc. I'm a competent mechanic but this has me stumped. I can't just swap parts on a whim.

Runs for 3-5 minutes then quits like it's out of gas. Has been getting worse till now, it is a hard fail today where it usually started up after maybe 30 mins then would run fine for days. I don't have the fancy Honda tools. I DO have the manual.

7K miles
NO MIL light
Full of fresh fuel, NO trace of water or dirt when drained (never mudded, river ran)
Pump runs as it should
Air filter fine, oil full
Starting fluid does not help, suggesting electrical
Battery great
new plug and cap installed 5 hours run time ago (old cap fell apart internally as they do)
battery voltage at coil
Engine cranks very well
Spark seems intermittent, sometimes a yellow spark (weak) but still doesn't fire with nice blue sparks.
Engine cranks a few revs, then spark starts seemingly at every TDC, then only on the power stroke.
I tried an Ign coil from a Yamaha Rhino with no change in symptoms
Injector clicks when power applied independently, no fire with ether tho anyway.
Sometimes fires a couple times then nothing

If I was in the States, I'd throw parts at it. Here, I will have to wait a month at twice the price.

Just looking for ideas, thanks.

 

[tjoreo]

It seems like you have hit everything I could think of. The only thing I don't see or may have read over could maybe be a valve adjustment or check compression?? You might do a little looking to see if some rincons might of had the same probems or one other thing I might recommend is to hit up toodeep on the other forum.

 

[joeymt33]

I agree with Tjoreo on the compression. It's pretty obvious that you've done your homework and you are pretty sharp guy. You've got to have fuel, spark, compression and correct timing. If you have means to check compression and timing, that would be my next steps.

 

[scott]

Dang you sound like you got this. Mine did something like that but it was water in the gas so I can't help much. Really hope someone can help you more. Good luck buddy.


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[Tflynn]

Sounds like you've thought of everything! I can only think of two things that you might try-

Not sure if your machine dies at idle or while you're driving, either way you may try cleaning your IACV. Mine was dirty and when I would pull up to a stop the engine would chug,chug,chug,die, like it ran out of gas. Cleaned IACV and alls well now. There's a "how to" thread on this here on the forum, the manual doesn't really explain it well in my opinion.

Other thing that comes to mind is your spark plug wire. You said it came apart, are you sure you got all the little pieces back in there? from what I remember, there is a little diode lookin thing and a brass cap that threads in to hold it. Sounds like there's intermittent spark perhaps, so maybe one of these pieces is not making a good connection at times? You could possibly try a new plug wire, or at least clean up the pieces within the boot and make sure they're good and tight. I'm not sure maybe the rhino coil had its own plug wire attached to it, if so then I guess that's not it either.

I hope this was helpful, good luck and if you want the link for cleaning your IACV I'll get it for you

 

[joeymt33]

Sounds like you've thought of everything! I can only think of two things that you might try-

Not sure if your machine dies at idle or while you're driving, either way you may try cleaning your IACV. Mine was dirty and when I would pull up to a stop the engine would chug,chug,chug,die, like it ran out of gas. Cleaned IACV and alls well now. There's a "how to" thread on this here on the forum, the manual doesn't really explain it well in my opinion.

Other thing that comes to mind is your spark plug wire. You said it came apart, are you sure you got all the little pieces back in there? from what I remember, there is a little diode lookin thing and a brass cap that threads in to hold it. Sounds like there's intermittent spark perhaps, so maybe one of these pieces is not making a good connection at times? You could possibly try a new plug wire, or at least clean up the pieces within the boot and make sure they're good and tight. I'm not sure maybe the rhino coil had its own plug wire attached to it, if so then I guess that's not it either.

I hope this was helpful, good luck and if you want the link for cleaning your IACV I'll get it for you

Man am I glad we still got some diehard 700 guys. You da man Tflynn

 

[allgm1]

Or perhaps an failed or failing ground connection somewhere. I know you said you have voltage at the coil, but you could have a knicked wire hanging on by one strand that will show good voltage with no load applied but won't be able to supply current enough to fire the coil. The same can be applied to a bad ground weather it be loose or corroded. The problem sounds to me like a spark problem as ether wouldn't make it fire. My father always used to tell me that a plug may fire a little on the outside of the cylinder, but its a whole other world for the plug when its installed and a weak firing plug on the outside won't fire inside.

 

[Reaver]

Thanks guys. My internet searches show it's not common.

This morning it fired up like a champ so obviously it's temperature related. Nights are cool here. It either runs perfect or not at all. I thought about the IACV and know the theory well but with Ether and part throttle it never even popped.

From my place it's all downhill. Start up, coast 1/4 mile, power thru a flat 1/2 mile then all down hill into town. A lot of engine braking going on however it was always running well. A progressive failure it seems. If you make it past the 10 minute mark it'll run all day. Seems like a dead zone at some temp.

Sure wish I could throw a new computer into it. I feel it's a bad board or connection...

 

[Reaver]

Well, can't fail it today. Runs fine, lots of power. I'm arranging backup then taking it to a Dealer an hour away. It should make it provided it doesn't quit in the first 5 mins.

I would like to have it quit, then immediately swap the computer, then try an ignition coil and if it still won't start, blame the crank position sensor pickup thingy. That's a much bigger replacement project. The Dealer rents these things out so he should have spares on hand for troubleshooting. Mind you, they're all the double spark new and improved versions.

I'll report back, everyone hates an unfinished "won't start" thread.

Cheers.

 

[Tflynn]

everyone hates an unfinished "won't start" thread.

Man isn't that the truth!

 

[Reaver]

I parked it at a house down the mountain next to the Coast Highway. Ran great. I'm going to price out parts and availability here before driving it on the highway. Turns out '14 parts only fit a '14. I'll try a computer and coil if possible. Some things here are expensive and some are cheap compared to the US. The Yamaha parts were the same (+/-) so we'll see how Honda does.

Oh, and I imagine if I slap a new 'puter in it, I'll have to do the TPS learning thing. More reading....

 

[Gator]

@Tflynn suggested the spark plug wire. I think he could be onto something.

How is your voltage? Low voltage can cause injectors to not function. @allgm1 mentioned a loose ground. That has the same effect as low voltage.

You mentioned the weather. Was it particularly wet on days that it quit?

I am anxious to hear what this is.

 

[Reaver]

As I said, the coil was changed for troubleshooting with no result. Battery is a few months old, peak condition. It ran fine in the 27" of rain we had here in November. It's an intermittent failure progressively getting worse. The weather is hot and dry now. In aviation, I'd have used cold spray selectively to narrow it down. I never thought to put the computer in the freezer when it didn't start the whole day. Still runs fine ATM.

 

[ByronM]

If you have not adjusted the valves it is way overdue at 7000 mi also have you ever changed the fuel filter, it would also be way overdue.

 

[Reaver]

If you have not adjusted the valves it is way overdue at 7000 mi also have you ever changed the fuel filter, it would also be way overdue.

I'm just gonna get this No Spark sorted out before I worry about general maintenance. 7K miles on a fuel filter is way overdue?

Dealer changed the Ignition Switch because he's seen many failures. I don't agree but it's free if it quits again.

 

[ByronM]

I'm just gonna get this No Spark sorted out before I worry about general maintenance. 7K miles on a fuel filter is way overdue?

Dealer changed the Ignition Switch because he's seen many failures. I don't agree but it's free if it quits again.

Well, I stand corrected, the fuel filter is a sock in the fuel tank that Honda doesn't have a service limit recommendation. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Reaver]

The sock is just the pre-filter to strain bugs and fuel can nozzles. It's an EFI system with 3 filters. The sock, a high pressure fine filter after the pump then a screen inside the fuel injector.

The sock and pressure filter are replaceable as needed. Partzilla says 16010-HL3-A01 FILTER SET, FUEL Price:$47.25

When the time comes, I'll just replace the whole pump assembly for $130 including the filters so I can have a spare on the shelf.

No prob. We're all here to learn and help each other out.