P700m4 Reverse Issues

[widopenspaces]

In researching possible answers to my problem I found none. That doesn't mean they aren't here somewhere, but as an FNG I am still learning navigation. Anyway, a couple months ago when using my buggy in the snow I went to back up and Reverse would not engage. It's happened several times since but always seems to come back. Today in anticipation of the possibility, I took the top three photos in the garage before backing out and using the rig around the property. Sure enough, about ten minutes later, I shifted into Reverse and it would not engage. The last photo is of the flat line in the window where the "R" normally appears and the "R" light did not come on either. I've heard it could be an issue with low oil, however, I just changed my oil/filter last week and I checked it again after the issue today and it was perfect. I also changed the rear differential oil. I've only got about 300 miles on the vehicle. I called Big Valley Honda where I purchased the buggy last May and made an appointment to have it checked (soonest April 27) so I wanted to see if any of you Pioneer 700 owners had ever experienced the same? The dealer had not and speculated it may be some kind of linkage issue. There was one post I found where someone had a similar issue and took it to the dealer but he never followed up with a resolution post. So, any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Admin]

 

[Hondasxs]

When you shift, does it feel like it goes?
Does it grind or anything?
Does it feel different between a time it works and a time it doesn't?
When you shift, are you shifting soft and slow? Try it fast and more solid.

Would start at the linkage and/or gear position sensor.

1 - it could not be going into R, which was common on the Rincons. The gear forks would bend/warp and the gear dogs would not mesh. Could also be a linkage issue.

2 - if the the machine is unable to identify what gear it is in it gives a - -. At this stage it will not engage the TC. This could be a sensor issue, loose wire, or really not in gear as said above.

Find the gear position wires.
Rear passenger wheel well. There is a 3 wire connector. This is the gear position sensor wires. Follow it and make sure it's good and not damaged.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[widopenspaces]

When you shift, does it feel like it goes?
Does it grind or anything?
Does it feel different between a time it works and a time it doesn't?
When you shift, are you shifting soft and slow? Try it fast and more solid.

Would start at the linkage and/or gear position sensor.

1 - it could not be going into R, which was common on the Rincons. The gear forks would bend/warp and the gear dogs would not mesh. Could also be a linkage issue.

2 - if the the machine is unable to identify what gear it is in it gives a - -. At this stage it will not engage the TC. This could be a sensor issue, loose wire, or really not in gear as said above.

Find the gear position wires.
Rear passenger wheel well. There is a 3 wire connector. This is the gear position sensor wires. Follow it and make sure it's good and not damaged.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I cannot tell when it goes out, it just happens. Randomly, I go to shift into reverse and it feels the same on the shifter but the buggy does not give the little jump as it does normally when engaging. I've tried soft and slow and faster and more solid with the same results. The information you've given me here, though, is a GREAT place to start looking and I will. I will also post picks and results when I do. Thank you!!!!

 

[Hondasxs]

I cannot tell when it goes out, it just happens. Randomly, I go to shift into reverse and it feels the same on the shifter but the buggy does not give the little jump as it does normally when engaging. I've tried soft and slow and faster and more solid with the same results. The information you've given me here, though, is a GREAT place to start looking and I will. I will also post picks and results when I do. Thank you!!!!

If there is a different feeling on the handle, like its not hitting the detent, then its mostlikley internal. Ex. The shift fork or other issue.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[Jerryg]

Those darn belts are a pain in the ass........

 

[Smitty335]

Those darn belts are a pain in the ass........

Your wearing yours wrong?

 

[widopenspaces]

If there is a different feeling on the handle, like its not hitting the detent, then its mostlikley internal. Ex. The shift fork or other issue.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I checked this again today and there is no difference in the feeling on the handle - or really, at all when it engages or does not. It feels the same on the handle and actually, still jumps a bit even when it does not engage. The only difference is the display flatlines instead of showing an "R", the yellow "R" reverse indicator light does not come on and it does not got into reverse.

 

[widopenspaces]

When you shift, does it feel like it goes?
Does it grind or anything?
Does it feel different between a time it works and a time it doesn't?
When you shift, are you shifting soft and slow? Try it fast and more solid.

Would start at the linkage and/or gear position sensor.

1 - it could not be going into R, which was common on the Rincons. The gear forks would bend/warp and the gear dogs would not mesh. Could also be a linkage issue.

2 - if the the machine is unable to identify what gear it is in it gives a - -. At this stage it will not engage the TC. This could be a sensor issue, loose wire, or really not in gear as said above.

Find the gear position wires.
Rear passenger wheel well. There is a 3 wire connector. This is the gear position sensor wires. Follow it and make sure it's good and not damaged.



Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

I found the gear position wires and the connector. They seem to be connected and in tact. I followed it and it all seems fine. I even videoed the linkage, but when I had it on the ramps, it engaged perfectly every time. After driving it for fifteen minutes or so down the street and up the hill, it would not engage, but my wife was not with me so I could not video for comparison. I will correct one thing I told you, though, I checked the shifter again today and there is no difference in the feeling on the handle - or really, at all when it engages or does not. It feels the same on the handle and actually, still jumps a bit even when it does not engage. The only difference is the display flatlines instead of showing an "R", the yellow "R" reverse indicator light does not come on and it does not got into reverse.

 

[Hondasxs]

So it shifts smoothly and has no sort of grinding or anything when in Reverse?

If no, Then I would still dig into that gear position sensor.
If you want... we can do some more probing to try and figure out if it's the sensor or something like a broke wire.
take that 3 connector apart.
One side is the sensor, other is the factory harness.
On the factory harness side, we need to ground the Gray wire. and only the gray wire.
I think it's the middle one. This is the reverse sensor wire.
When it has a ground, and the other 2 wires do not, the display will show R... Irrlivant to the shifter position.
If more than 1 wire is grounded at the same time, or if none of them are grounded, it will show you a ( -- ).
So, ground the gray wire and have someone read the display.
you can actually test all 3 wires if you like.

If the gray wire does not read R but the others do read N and D. then its not the sensor or gear dogs.
its an electrical issue to the ECU. Have to test that next.
If it DOES read R, then I would replace the sensor.

 

[widopenspaces]

So it shifts smoothly and has no sort of grinding or anything when in Reverse?

If no, Then I would still dig into that gear position sensor.
If you want... we can do some more probing to try and figure out if it's the sensor or something like a broke wire.
take that 3 connector apart.
One side is the sensor, other is the factory harness.
On the factory harness side, we need to ground the Gray wire. and only the gray wire.
I think it's the middle one. This is the reverse sensor wire.
When it has a ground, and the other 2 wires do not, the display will show R... Irrlivant to the shifter position.
If more than 1 wire is grounded at the same time, or if none of them are grounded, it will show you a ( -- ).
So, ground the gray wire and have someone read the display.
you can actually test all 3 wires if you like.

If the gray wire does not read R but the others do read N and D. then its not the sensor or gear dogs.
its an electrical issue to the ECU. Have to test that next.
If it DOES read R, then I would replace the sensor.

So it shifts smoothly and has no sort of grinding or anything when in Reverse?

If no, Then I would still dig into that gear position sensor.
If you want... we can do some more probing to try and figure out if it's the sensor or something like a broke wire.
take that 3 connector apart.
One side is the sensor, other is the factory harness.
On the factory harness side, we need to ground the Gray wire. and only the gray wire.
I think it's the middle one. This is the reverse sensor wire.
When it has a ground, and the other 2 wires do not, the display will show R... Irrlivant to the shifter position.
If more than 1 wire is grounded at the same time, or if none of them are grounded, it will show you a ( -- ).
So, ground the gray wire and have someone read the display.
you can actually test all 3 wires if you like.

If the gray wire does not read R but the others do read N and D. then its not the sensor or gear dogs.
its an electrical issue to the ECU. Have to test that next.
If it DOES read R, then I would replace the sensor.

"So it shifts smoothly and has no sort of grinding or anything when in Reverse?" -- Yes, that is correct. This is great information. I will get my buddy to assist and see what we can find and let you know. Worst case scenario I have an appointment at Big Valley Honda 4/27 to check it out, however, I've gotten a lot more information about possibilities here by far than the two conversations I had with him on the phone. If I cannot get it figured out, I hope he's not offended when I offer up all the possibilities mentioned here. Anyway, thank you so much! Great information and instructions! I will report back.

 

[Hondasxs]

Doing that check will tell us what side of the connector the issue is on.
Cuts trouble shooting in 1/2.

 

[widopenspaces]

Gentlemen . . . and I use that term very loosely, I never was able to figure out what was going on with my reverse. So, I had an appointment at Big Valley Honda for April 27. I took it in and off the top of his head, he said it could be a "speed sensor" but he did not know for sure. He said they have five different speed sensors. He might as well have been speaking Spanish because I've no clue what he was talking about. One thing he did say, though, that did not come up in our thread, was that when you get a flat line like I did when it would not go into reverse, the buggy is throwing a code. That, I did understand. So, I am assuming he will drive it around until the issue happens again and it flatlines, and then put it on a computer to see the issue. Just wanted to share that with you guys. I will report back after I get it out of the shop for future references should anyone experience the same issue.

 

[widopenspaces]

Soooo. talked with the dealer today and the flat line, when it should have shifted into reverse but didn't, that they were sure would throw a code -- it didn't. Two of the techs drove my buggy, both got the same result and both are now digging deeper to hopefully discover the issue. I'm nervous. As I said, this is my first SXS and everyone, and I mean everyone, I've talked with -- including you all, tell me Honda is exceptional. I do not doubt that. Being a new buggy owner, though, I am a bit nervous. I bought my 2021 Honda Pioneer 700 4 off the floor of Big Valley Honda brand new last May. I don't know the exact numbers, but I believe I have about 300 hours on the machine. I will keep you up to date on the progress.

 

[Remington]

Gentlemen

Who came in? 🤣
Get it? 3 stooges reference

I believe I have about 300 hours on the machine.

How many miles?

BTW never heard someone reference being the FNG as many times as you 🤣 Give yourself some credit

 

[DG Rider]

Unless it's changed on the newer gen (with the fancy gauges, which you don't have), the 700 has ONE speed sensor, so there's the first strike on Mr dealer.

The subtranny is on the back of the engine and shifts through mechanical means. The only way the engine management knows what gear is through the gear position sensor just above where the lever enters the case.

You could, literally, wire the sensor to show drive and get three reverse gears...if you wanted. It simply isn't seeing a gear indicated by this sensor.

Really only a few possibilities here:
1. The sensor itself is bad.
2. The wiring to the sensor is damaged
3. Some mechanical thing like a poorly adjusted or damaged shifter is keeping the shift fork from traveling far enough to "trip" the reverse contacts.
4. The ECU is bad.

If I recall, there is no adjustment on the sensor.

 

[widopenspaces]

Who came in? 🤣
Get it? 3 stooges reference

How many miles?

BTW never heard someone reference being the FNG as many times as you 🤣 Give yourself some credit

I meant to say 300 miles, not 300 hours - my bad. Okay, then, it's official, I'm not an OG but I'm not an FNG anymore either. I am reluctant, though, to call myself a "member". That is reserved, but more graphically, for the dude in the WH.

 

[widopenspaces]

Okay, I hate to string this thing out, but I got a call yesterday from the BVH tech. He said they contacted Honda to see what direction they should go next since the buggy was not throwing a code when it flat lined when shifted into reverse. Evidently, they could not figure it out. He told me Honda told them to try an new ECM. I will let you know the outcome. On a different note, my wife and I have been thinking about upgrading to the Honda 1000 Forrest. There are four things we would like to upgrade from our current buggy. Power steering, downhill compression, ground clearance and power. We figured with the accessories we've put on our current buggy and low mileage, there is no better time than the present to sell and upgrade. Any of you out there have any experience with the 2023 Forrest?

 

[HondaTech]

Good ol' parts hanger.

 

[widopenspaces]

Good ol' parts hanger.

Okay, feeling like a rookie still. What is that?

 

[HondaTech]

Okay, feeling like a rookie still. What is that?

It's what we call guys in our line of work who don't actually know whats wrong with something. They just throw parts at it unitl something fixes the issue.

It's become more of an issue lately because Honda's troubleshooting is lame and usually just tells us to try this part and see what happens, then try something else if the issue returns. But if you take some time to understand how a system or product operates you can diagnose the problem and be confident the fix you recommended is correct and is going to alleviate the issue.