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Sheetmetalfab
Liberal kryptonite. truth and logic….
Lifetime Member
i’ll just point out that you have your experience with belt drive machines.
nothing can take away from that..... (for you)
my experience with belt drive machines comes from a different angle.
any stock machine with a belt driveridden hard has broken belts. Period.
with clutching, venting, tougher belts, the mileage increases.
even after spending thousands of dollars chasing belt life they still break though.
on my snowmobile there is no other options.
in the sxs world there is.
(same with atv’s)
H
hondabob
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Thanks for the 4 seater swap info Paul. I hadn't looked into it seriously. I knew the steering rack would need to be swapped. Nothing wrong with just buying the 4 seat X. I'm going to wait a bit to see the new Hondas. Putting 30,000 miles on my Talon will be nothing but fun in the fast lane. After a few improvements its just like having a new car. You drive it, wash it, change the oil, and put on the miles without any problems and that's the way all $20,000 plus toys should be. I know how to deal with belt drive maintenance but now we have a choice with the Hondas and the Yamaha YXZ. Next week Yamaha will have two new models and hopefully they won't have a belt drive.
I wonder if companies like HCR, Weller, Fireball, etc will end up making a long travel kit for the Honda Talons. I know we all wish that Honda would make a bunch of different variations but for some reason they nor Yamaha tend to have tons of variations. But the Yamaha has a pretty awesome aftermarket to taylor the machine to how you want it. Hopefully the Honda aftermarket ends up filling that void too!
HCR makes one for the R and the X (both 2 and 4 seater) already. Both put them at 72" wide. VERY spendy...
HCR RACING TAL-05400 Honda Talon 1000R 2 SEAT Long Travel Suspension Kit
PART # TAL-05400 HCR Suspension’s Honda Talon Dual-Sport Long-Travel Suspension System This system is designed to give you more stability and control in various applications from dunes ,desert and rock crawling . Giving you an edge over stock components. Features: Added Strength and Appeal with...
hcrracing.com
HCR Racing TAL-05500 Honda Talon 1000X Long Travel Suspension Kit
PART# TAL-05500 HCR Racing is excited to announce an all new kit that enhances their product line for the popular Honda Talon 1000X. This all new Long-Travel Suspension Kit comes from the Industry leader in suspension products that adds to their line of OEM Replacement kits and their Long-Travel...
hcrracing.com
@CID and I saw that rig last November at the SxS rally at Sand Hollow. It was very tricked out and probably has many more goodies on it by now. It was one of the first 1000R's I saw sporting 32's.
CID
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Hmmm, curious they didn't have high clearance rear arms on that unit. 🤔 It really jumped out at me. I'd bet it does now.
Ok on a lighter note, Is it just me or does the S.T. Honda Hater look Exactly like a pale version of Jeffery Epstein?😁
Sheetmetalfab
Liberal kryptonite. truth and logic….
Lifetime Member
The Clintons failed to kill epstein!!!!!
CID
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
I wondered how guys could look at a suspension and say this won't work and you'll never be able to tune it out. I also thought that there had to be engineering books that would explain to Yamaha and Honda engineers (in this case) how to design a properly working suspension. ST's explanation shows that, indeed, that information is widely available and both Yami and Honda screwed the pooch by ignoring basic engineering concepts. 
I'm well past my racer years and still love my Talon but it's disappointing they made this very basic engineering mistake.
I'm well past my racer years and still love my Talon but it's disappointing they made this very basic engineering mistake.
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I am not the least surprised at Yamaha. The last sled I bought was a V Max XT, which was their first "long travel" sled. It had geometry issues, and was seriously prone to "darting". It was truly awful, and quickly gained a reputation as a POS. I had to take a huge loss to dump it, and left the sport. I would have NEVER expected Honda to do it.
So after watching this last video, I stand by my frustrations with ST.
He trashes the Talon in video #2 and then explains and actually shows his expertise in video #3. I DO NOT have a problem with the trashing and appreciate his explanation. I have an issue with him knowing what is wrong all along and selling me stuff that won't fix it. He has now verified the reason I am not happy and why I called him nothing more than a salesman. He seems to know his trade, just ignored the facts when advertising his wares.
He KNOWS the Talon has geometry issues. He goes on further to say in video #3 that the is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it and the car will always buck unless you stiffen the rebound and take away suspension travel (not a good tradeoff in his opinion), somehow move the center of gravity back (I am not going to add weight I don't want) or completely redo the suspension (too expensive). OK, that is fine and dandy BUT, his website says otherwise and I spent $600 on springs that can never fix the Talon's problem. And even after admitting "there is nothing you can do", they are still peddling these springs to "Greatly reduce rear end bucking" and this is just not true because by his own admission, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!
This is what frustrated me, not his honesty. His honesty would have been more useful BEFORE I forked out $600 for springs. This sales garbage cost me money that I could have spent elsewhere and that is what frustrates me, not his opinions.
I could care less if he is a KRX "Fanboy". I just want some REAL facts before I plop down my hard earned cash, not after.
He trashes the Talon in video #2 and then explains and actually shows his expertise in video #3. I DO NOT have a problem with the trashing and appreciate his explanation. I have an issue with him knowing what is wrong all along and selling me stuff that won't fix it. He has now verified the reason I am not happy and why I called him nothing more than a salesman. He seems to know his trade, just ignored the facts when advertising his wares.
He KNOWS the Talon has geometry issues. He goes on further to say in video #3 that the is absolutely NOTHING you can do about it and the car will always buck unless you stiffen the rebound and take away suspension travel (not a good tradeoff in his opinion), somehow move the center of gravity back (I am not going to add weight I don't want) or completely redo the suspension (too expensive). OK, that is fine and dandy BUT, his website says otherwise and I spent $600 on springs that can never fix the Talon's problem. And even after admitting "there is nothing you can do", they are still peddling these springs to "Greatly reduce rear end bucking" and this is just not true because by his own admission, THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT!!!
This is what frustrated me, not his honesty. His honesty would have been more useful BEFORE I forked out $600 for springs. This sales garbage cost me money that I could have spent elsewhere and that is what frustrates me, not his opinions.
I could care less if he is a KRX "Fanboy". I just want some REAL facts before I plop down my hard earned cash, not after.
Paul, I am probably going to take a beating for this comment, seems it never comes off as intended (constructive) but here it goes anyway. In their add is says Greatly reduces rear end bucking it doesn't say it eliminates it, isn't it possible to improve everything thus justifying the price? Maybe it will never be as good as some of the other brands but still has benefits. Do you have the spring kit?
This will be my next purchase (suspension work) and I am trying to establish the benefits.
This will be my next purchase (suspension work) and I am trying to establish the benefits.
You will not take a beating from me. I do have the spring kit and it has been installed for about 2000 miles. I have much seat time and can tell you...
- Increased ride height (average 1" to 2") <This is true.
- Greatly improved bottom out resistance <This is an over-exaggeration. It helps slightly, not "Greatly"
- Much more smooth ride over chop/chatter <I consider this claim pretty accurate. Made the ride much smoother and reduced rear wheel hop as well.
- Greatly reduced rear end bucking <This is a GROSS over-exaggeration. It helps VERY slightly (if at all), not "Greatly" My R still bucks like a mule. But like he says, "there is nothing I can do about it" so I am going to have to learn to live with it.
Another problem known by them that is NEVER mentioned is that your front shocks will "thump" when they top out. Their solution is to spend even more money with them to have the shocks re-valved and/or install their "special" limit straps. Had I known any of this, I would have NEVER bought these springs.
All around, I am very disappointed and feel like I got screwed. That is only my experience and opinion, your mileage may vary.
Now looking at my R to see if there is anything that can be done to improve the geometry, I started measuring and applying the "formula" that he shows in the video and it just doesn't add up for me. Sorry for the crude drawing but it will help see what I see.
- The Green lines represent the point of the ground and forward thrust through the pivot point. This is easy to figure out.
- Black circle is fully extended rear suspension.
- The Blue line represents the COG's approximate Longitudinal location. This is calculated with a 220 lb driver and nothing else. This calculation is based on Honda's 55% rear weight. Without scales, it is impossible to determine the actual line but it is pretty close.
- Also without scales, it is impossible to calculate the COG's Altitudinal location. BUT...
- If what he says is true, the COG would need to be somewhere where the Red box is and that is near impossible on a SXS like the Talon. If the Talon's COG was that low, it would very difficult to roll.
- The Pink circle is where the COG most likely is on the Talon so by his demonstration on the whiteboard, the Talon should not buck.
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