Sub trans oil

[Kristopher]

Thought I’d add some findings since playing around with the oil viscosities. To start, I had never had any of the slam nois before playing with different oils. I did the 100 mile service and put amsoil metric 10w40 in everything as I had it sitting around from my motorcycles. Not a single issue with the sub trans, no shift hesitation, gears went in smooth, no banging. i had the amsoil in for about 800 miles. I had ipone stroke 4 0w40 sitting around from a can am outlander I used to own that I thought I’d try. Immediately, the sub trans was a little harder to shift. I had to move the machine a little, so I parked it outside, when I went to put it away afterwards, I shifted to high, went to accelerate and it made a little bang. So I immediately drained that oil out, it did nothing well for a gear box application. When draining, it was extremely frothy, airated. Good thing i only did a slow drive around the yard, back to the garage.
Long story short, ipone stroke 4 0w40 is not a good weight for the sub trans, so far amsoil Metric 10w40 has been the best, it’s completely different, the smoothness and no banging. This is the specs for the stroke 4 0w40.

 

[PaulF]

Thought I’d add some findings since playing around with the oil viscosities. To start, I had never had any of the slam nois before playing with different oils. I did the 100 mile service and put amsoil metric 10w40 in everything as I had it sitting around from my motorcycles. Not a single issue with the sub trans, no shift hesitation, gears went in smooth, no banging. i had the amsoil in for about 800 miles. I had ipone stroke 4 0w40 sitting around from a can am outlander I used to own that I thought I’d try. Immediately, the sub trans was a little harder to shift. I had to move the machine a little, so I parked it outside, when I went to put it away afterwards, I shifted to high, went to accelerate and it made a little bang. So I immediately drained that oil out, it did nothing well for a gear box application. When draining, it was extremely frothy, airated. Good thing i only did a slow drive around the yard, back to the garage.
Long story short, ipone stroke 4 0w40 is not a good weight for the sub trans, so far amsoil Metric 10w40 has been the best, it’s completely different, the smoothness and no banging. This is the specs for the stroke 4 0w40.
View attachment 199031

That is an Ester based oil and they are designed for higher temperature use and are notorious for foaming at lower temperatures.

Another concern with Ester oils is seal compatibility. Ester based oils can cause certain types of seals to swell and leak and may not be at all compatible with the seal material that Honda uses. Good thing you drained it quickly and you may want to keep an eye on the seals for a little while.

 

[Kristopher]

That is an Ester based oil and they are designed for higher temperature use and are notorious for foaming at lower temperatures.

Another concern with Ester oils is seal compatibility. Ester based oils can cause certain types of seals to swell and leak and may not be at all compatible with the seal material that Honda uses. Good thing you drained it quickly and you may want to keep an eye on the seals for a little while.

Thanks for the info about ester oils. I wonder if a lot of the difference with how smooth the trans operated had to do with it being an ester base or if it was because of it being 0w40.

 

[PaulF]

Thanks for the info about ester oils. I wonder if a lot of the difference with how smooth the trans operated had to do with it being an ester base or if it was because of it being 0w40.

Probably both. I ran 0W-20 full synthetic during the winter and it made a big difference. Back to 10W-30 for the summer and I can tell.

HondaBob also experimented with various oils and has determined that 10W-40 with Moly makes the Sub-Tran shift like butter. He says it made a HUGE difference. See this thread...

Talon R 13,000 mile report

Still running like new. Honda has done a great job designing the Talon. The hard part is done and improvements are the easy part. I expect the suspension will be improved in future models and the air filter intake will be relocated into clean air too. I have the Honda 10w40 HP4M Synthetic Blend...

hondasxs.com

 

[jaymohn]

That is an Ester based oil and they are designed for higher temperature use and are notorious for foaming at lower temperatures.

Another concern with Ester oils is seal compatibility. Ester based oils can cause certain types of seals to swell and leak and may not be at all compatible with the seal material that Honda uses. Good thing you drained it quickly and you may want to keep an eye on the seals for a little while.

Funny that you mention this as I just bought some BelRays Semisynthetic from Rocky Mountain ATV that is ester based stock. Has anyone had issues with seals leaking using ester based stock on newer vehicles or Honda's more specifically?
Here is the oil I bought:

Bel-Ray Thumper Racing Synthetic Blend 4-Stroke Motor Oil | Parts & Accessories | Rocky Mountain ATV/MC

Shop for Oil & Chemicals, like Bel-Ray Thumper Racing Synthetic Blend 4-Stroke Motor Oil at Rocky Mountain ATV/MC. We have the best prices on dirt bike, atv and motorcycle parts, apparel and accessories and offer excellent customer service.

www.rockymountainatvmc.com

Here is some way in-depth info from Bobstheoilguy forum. Interesting read as I used to formulate industrial lubricants and never heard of the potential seal issue.

An Overview of Esters in Synthetic Lubricants

Here is a technical paper on synthetic esters for lubricants. Tom NJ ESTERS IN SYNTHETIC LUBRICANTS By T. G. Schaefer In the simplest terms, esters can be defined as the reaction products of acids and alcohols. Thousands of different kinds of esters are commercially produced for a broad...

www.bobistheoilguy.com

Here is some info from Amsoil's website:

Does Changing to Synthetics Create Risk of Gasket Leaks or Seal Leaks?

A former OEM headquarters senior engineer gives detailed answers to common questions about potential engine oil leaks in seals or gaskets, from changing to synthetic oils.

ultimatesyntheticoil.com