Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live - I4WD Will Not Engage (Resolved)

[Steve-O-Utah]

Having a rare issue with my new Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live and wanted to get the information out there so that when Honda figures out the issue, other people might be able to look up this post.

Model: Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live
Year: 2020
Miles: 140
Issue: 4 wheel drive not engaging
Symptoms:

1. Drive mode indicator light flashes between 2WD LOCK and I4WD when selecting I4WD (The silhouette picture of the front and rear tires on the dash display).
2. Drive mode indicator light flashes on 2WD LOCK only when switching back to 2WD after trying I4W. Only goes solid after stopping and restarting engine.
3. Front wheels have no power to them (tested in gravel).
4. Front drive shaft does spin (visual inspection).
5. Did not work from the first day. Noticed on initial 50 mile break in ride.
6. I4WD error light does not come on (Except for light check when starting the unit).
7. Hill start assist does work correctly.
8. Launch mode works correctly.
9. Automatic and manual transmission operations are normal.

After Market: Dealer installed a street legal turn signal kit and finished that work an hour before I picked up the unit. No other aftermarket changes or additions

General Notes: Dealer had me finish break-in driving in 2 wheel drive and then bring it in so that break in maintenance could be performed along with the repair. Drive mode indicator is discussed on page 37 of the owners manual.

Dealer Troubleshooting:

1. Replaced the front sensors.
2. Replaced the I4WD switch.
3. Disconnected the after market turn signal kit.
4. Inspected and tested all of the wiring.
5. Plugged in a dash unit from another Talon (see notes below).
6. Had to take video to prove to Honda that this was happening.

Dealer Notes: When testing with the other dash unit, the problem remained. When the dealer attached the dash unit back to the Talon they borrowed it from, the issue started happening on that Talon as well.

Current Status:

1. Honda does not want the dealer to trial and error troubleshoot at this point because they don't want to break other units.
2. Honda upper level engineers are looking at the issue in their labs.
3. The dealer has had my Talon for a week so far.

I will post the resolution here. If anyone has thoughts on what I can tell the dealer, please let me know.

Thank you!

keywords: talon 4 wheel drive i4wd

 

[Admin]

 

[HondaTech]

Does the street legal kit attach to the brake lights in anyway?

I'd have the pcm checked for codes to be safe. Clear and recheck for any recurring immediately after key cycle.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Possibly part # 20. That engages the driveshaft to front diff.

 

[Steve-O-Utah]

Does the street legal kit attach to the brake lights in anyway?

I'd have the pcm checked for codes to be safe. Clear and recheck for any recurring immediately after key cycle.

Does the street legal kit attach to the brake lights in anyway?

I'd have the pcm checked for codes to be safe. Clear and recheck for any recurring immediately after key cycle.

Yes, the street legal kit does connect to the brake lights, but the dealer says that they have removed the kit entirely as part of the troubleshooting steps. I will mention checking the pcm codes as you have suggested. Thanks so much for your reply!

 

[Steve-O-Utah]

Possibly part # 20. That engages the driveshaft to front diff.

View attachment 214443

I will mention this to the dealer. Thank you su much for your reply. I love the support that this community provides.

 

[Steve-O-Utah]

Having a rare issue with my new Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live and wanted to get the information out there so that when Honda figures out the issue, other people might be able to look up this post.

Model: Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live
Year: 2020
Miles: 140
Issue: 4 wheel drive not engaging
Symptoms:

1. Drive mode indicator light flashes between 2WD LOCK and I4WD when selecting I4WD (The silhouette picture of the front and rear tires on the dash display).
2. Drive mode indicator light flashes on 2WD LOCK only when switching back to 2WD after trying I4W. Only goes solid after stopping and restarting engine.
3. Front wheels have no power to them (tested in gravel).
4. Front drive shaft does spin (visual inspection).
5. Did not work from the first day. Noticed on initial 50 mile break in ride.
6. I4WD error light does not come on (Except for light check when starting the unit).
7. Hill start assist does work correctly.
8. Launch mode works correctly.
9. Automatic and manual transmission operations are normal.

After Market: Dealer installed a street legal turn signal kit and finished that work an hour before I picked up the unit. No other aftermarket changes or additions

General Notes: Dealer had me finish break-in driving in 2 wheel drive and then bring it in so that break in maintenance could be performed along with the repair. Drive mode indicator is discussed on page 37 of the owners manual.

Dealer Troubleshooting:

1. Replaced the front sensors.
2. Replaced the I4WD switch.
3. Disconnected the after market turn signal kit.
4. Inspected and tested all of the wiring.
5. Plugged in a dash unit from another Talon (see notes below).
6. Had to take video to prove to Honda that this was happening.

Dealer Notes: When testing with the other dash unit, the problem remained. When the dealer attached the dash unit back to the Talon they borrowed it from, the issue started happening on that Talon as well.

Current Status:

1. Honda does not want the dealer to trial and error troubleshoot at this point because they don't want to break other units.
2. Honda upper level engineers are looking at the issue in their labs.
3. The dealer has had my Talon for a week so far.

I will post the resolution here. If anyone has thoughts on what I can tell the dealer, please let me know.

Thank you!

keywords: talon 4 wheel drive i4wd

RESOLUTION (6 weeks after discovery of the issue):

Relay that engages I4WD was missing, never installed at the factory!

Part # 38503-MCA-A61 Relay (MICRO ISO 4P)

This relay was installed and the machine appears to be working wonderfully now.

As a side note, we have noticed that it is shifting much more smoothly and FoxValve seems to be working better as well. Are we crazy, or does this relay have something to do with engaging these systems as well?

We are talking with Honda corporate about what they can do to make me feel better about this machine as well as what they can do to improve their quality control. I understand that a part can be missed on an assembly line. I do not understand how it could have left the factory floor without being tested. If they are not doing simple tests like engaging the 4 wheel drive to see that it spins properly, they have some serious quality control issues. If they have a test and it was missed there as well, I also have concerns.

 

[NTCPrezJB]

RESOLUTION (6 weeks after discovery of the issue):

Relay that engages I4WD was missing, never installed at the factory!

Part # 38503-MCA-A61 Relay (MICRO ISO 4P)

This relay was installed and the machine appears to be working wonderfully now.

As a side node, we have noticed that it is shifting much more smoothly and FoxValve seems to be working better as well. Are we crazy, or does this relay have something to do with engaging these systems as well?

We are talking with Honda corporate about what they can do to make me feel better about this machine as well as what they can do to improve their quality control. I understand that a part can be missed on an assembly line. I do not understand how it could have left the factory floor without being tested. If they are not doing simple tests like engaging the 4 wheel drive to see that it spins properly, they have some serious quality control issues. If they have a test and it was missed there as well, I also have concerns.

Damn kind of like looking for a Zebra when clearly it was a Horse that was missing.
In troubleshooting...it is far too often simple things getting overlooked.

 

[Steve-O-Utah]

Just finished my 7th communication with Honda Powersports Customer Service. Initial discussion was about finding the problem. Eventually I asked Honda to pay for an extended warranty. Now I am being told that they are waiting for regional field representatives to email them back and am also being told that my customer service representative is the highest level that I am allowed to talk to. Promised phone calls are not being returned and my confidence as a long time Honda customer is dwindling. Any suggestions on how to get around customer service and actually get to someone with authority would be greatly appreciated.

 

[McCarthy]

I hate to say it, but want results? Social media.

 

[Smitty335]

I hate to say it, but want results? Social media.

Better be a registered Democrat for Social Media results! And that's all I have to say about that!

 

[HondaTech]

Sounds like someone skipped a few troubleshooting steps

 

[Steve-O-Utah]

Honda stepped up to the plate! They finally called me back and said that they had a conference call that included reps from the factory, region, and customer service. I was told that this is the only case that has been reported to Honda since the Talon's have been manufactured. They assured me that steps have been put in to place to make sure that this never happens again.

As requested, Honda is paying for an extended warranty for my machine. I will have to fill out paperwork at the dealer for this. Not sure of the term yet. My guess would be an additional year.

Thank you all for your comments and direction. My goal has not been to slam Honda. The intention has been to get information out there to help others should they run across a similar issue.

 

[Lil_Steve]

I was told that this is the only case that has been reported to Honda since the Talon's have been manufactured.

Well aren't you lucky, go buy a lottery ticket while the iron is hot!

I'm glad Honda did the right thing by you, hopefully you wont need that extended warranty. Thanks for updating this thread with such detail.👍

 

[BigOL3]

Should have advised Honda, the solution to the whole problem would be get RID of the I4WD and replace with setup like the P1K with locker ....... problem SOLVED!

 

[tad2340]

Having a rare issue with my new Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live and wanted to get the information out there so that when Honda figures out the issue, other people might be able to look up this post.

Model: Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live
Year: 2020
Miles: 140
Issue: 4 wheel drive not engaging
Symptoms:

1. Drive mode indicator light flashes between 2WD LOCK and I4WD when selecting I4WD (The silhouette picture of the front and rear tires on the dash display).
2. Drive mode indicator light flashes on 2WD LOCK only when switching back to 2WD after trying I4W. Only goes solid after stopping and restarting engine.
3. Front wheels have no power to them (tested in gravel).
4. Front drive shaft does spin (visual inspection).
5. Did not work from the first day. Noticed on initial 50 mile break in ride.
6. I4WD error light does not come on (Except for light check when starting the unit).
7. Hill start assist does work correctly.
8. Launch mode works correctly.
9. Automatic and manual transmission operations are normal.

After Market: Dealer installed a street legal turn signal kit and finished that work an hour before I picked up the unit. No other aftermarket changes or additions

General Notes: Dealer had me finish break-in driving in 2 wheel drive and then bring it in so that break in maintenance could be performed along with the repair. Drive mode indicator is discussed on page 37 of the owners manual.

Dealer Troubleshooting:

1. Replaced the front sensors.
2. Replaced the I4WD switch.
3. Disconnected the after market turn signal kit.
4. Inspected and tested all of the wiring.
5. Plugged in a dash unit from another Talon (see notes below).
6. Had to take video to prove to Honda that this was happening.

Dealer Notes: When testing with the other dash unit, the problem remained. When the dealer attached the dash unit back to the Talon they borrowed it from, the issue started happening on that Talon as well.

Current Status:

1. Honda does not want the dealer to trial and error troubleshoot at this point because they don't want to break other units.
2. Honda upper level engineers are looking at the issue in their labs.
3. The dealer has had my Talon for a week so far.

I will post the resolution here. If anyone has thoughts on what I can tell the dealer, please let me know.

Thank you!

keywords: talon 4 wheel drive i4wd

Having a rare issue with my new Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live and wanted to get the information out there so that when Honda figures out the issue, other people might be able to look up this post.

Model: Talon 1000X-4 Fox Live
Year: 2020
Miles: 140
Issue: 4 wheel drive not engaging
Symptoms:

1. Drive mode indicator light flashes between 2WD LOCK and I4WD when selecting I4WD (The silhouette picture of the front and rear tires on the dash display).
2. Drive mode indicator light flashes on 2WD LOCK only when switching back to 2WD after trying I4W. Only goes solid after stopping and restarting engine.
3. Front wheels have no power to them (tested in gravel).
4. Front drive shaft does spin (visual inspection).
5. Did not work from the first day. Noticed on initial 50 mile break in ride.
6. I4WD error light does not come on (Except for light check when starting the unit).
7. Hill start assist does work correctly.
8. Launch mode works correctly.
9. Automatic and manual transmission operations are normal.

After Market: Dealer installed a street legal turn signal kit and finished that work an hour before I picked up the unit. No other aftermarket changes or additions

General Notes: Dealer had me finish break-in driving in 2 wheel drive and then bring it in so that break in maintenance could be performed along with the repair. Drive mode indicator is discussed on page 37 of the owners manual.

Dealer Troubleshooting:

1. Replaced the front sensors.
2. Replaced the I4WD switch.
3. Disconnected the after market turn signal kit.
4. Inspected and tested all of the wiring.
5. Plugged in a dash unit from another Talon (see notes below).
6. Had to take video to prove to Honda that this was happening.

Dealer Notes: When testing with the other dash unit, the problem remained. When the dealer attached the dash unit back to the Talon they borrowed it from, the issue started happening on that Talon as well.

Current Status:

1. Honda does not want the dealer to trial and error troubleshoot at this point because they don't want to break other units.
2. Honda upper level engineers are looking at the issue in their labs.
3. The dealer has had my Talon for a week so far.

I will post the resolution here. If anyone has thoughts on what I can tell the dealer, please let me know.

Thank you!

keywords: talon 4 wheel drive i4wd

I'm having the exact same issue but it did work at some point.The dealer has had it for a few days and can find the problem>I.m hoping for the best!

 

[Steve-O-Utah]

I'm having the exact same issue but it did work at some point.The dealer has had it for a few days and can find the problem>I.m hoping for the best!

Maybe direct your dealer to this thread. I know that my dealer was scouring the forums at the time looking for information.

 

[Brandy R]

I'm having the exact same issue but it did work at some point.The dealer has had it for a few days and can find the problem>I.m hoping for the best!

Did you get it resolved? going through it now.

 

[Joebernal]

Where is this relay located? I’m having the same issue but I have a 2019 Talon R