Toy hauler

[Robobrainiac]

My wife and I have a piece of property with a nice cabin on it in Michigan thru a family trust. Long story short family is getting sour. We have just recently learned for the cost per month of the trust we could have a toy hauler/camper. So I would like some input from people and their suggestions. I found this and it seems too good to be true

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Forest-River-Vengeance-397V-5014014182

I have found some prowler and palomino 2021 brand new which are smaller but new around 30kish.

We have a pioneer 1000-5 and 2 Honda 4 wheelers we would like to tote around.

Our tow rig is a 2003 ram 2500 cummins.

Would a dually be something we should invest in?

We are tossing the idea around of separating ourselves from the monthly cost of the property and investing that money into something that we can have fun in. Thank you all in advance!

 

[Admin]

 

[JACKAL]

I have had 2 Heartland Cylone Toyhaulers with pretty good reliability over 9 years of ownership. The second unit wife and I lived in full time for 8 months which is about 20 years worth of camping use. No significant issues.

Based on your machines if you want to take the Pioneer and both ATVs I recommend you get the 18 ft garage model.

I delivered new RVs to dealerships from factories and hauled 5th wheel Toyhaulers almost exclusively. Doing so I seen about everything there is. One constant it the interiors are all like butterfly wings and anything but delicate use shows wear quickly across all makes. Forrest River and Heartland are generally good brands depends upon how the workers were when building the unit.

If you are looking at big triple axles with 16k-21k. GVWR I definitely recommend a dually one ton diesel. The stability and stopping ability are needed especially if you are towing through mountains of any degree.

Here are some examples of the bigger garage units, it all boils down to budget for RV & Tow pig combined, desired Floorplan, and garage space needs depending upon toys.

Personally after buying a new Toyhauler and 1 ton dually you are looking at 140-160k. If I were doing it again I would go with a 28" enclosed trailer behind a 4x4 Super C motor home such as this

2021 Nexus Rebel 30R 4x4 International® CV™ Series Super C W/ 350HP

mhsrv.com

2021 Dynamax Corp Isata 5 Series 30FW 4x4 Diesel Super C RV W/ Theater Seats, 2 Stage Air Suspension & Solar

mhsrv.com

2021 Nexus Rebel 35R Bunk Model 4x4 International® CV™ Series Super C W/ Exterior Entertainment Center & 350HP

mhsrv.com

My personal favorite:

2021 Thor Motor Coach Magnitude SV34 4x4 330HP Diesel Super C W/ Theater Seats, King Bed

mhsrv.com

No matter what you decide on there is about 40-45% markup from factories to dealerships. So whatever list price is a good deal is about 35% off that.

 

[HondaRed16]

I’ll probably get some disagreement here but I can assure you the truck will handle it, with that said a dually is more stable in regards to sway but not by much, they also have a higher GVW, I had a 40’ and pulled it with the same truck only a little newer to 10,000’ elevation all the time loaded with my P5, gas, water, etc.
Balance the weight as best you can, stay within the pin weight, make sure the truck runs good, has been serviced, etc.

Nice trailer, kind of a unique design, I’d buy it 😊

 

[Rocket]

My wife and I have a piece of property with a nice cabin on it in Michigan thru a family trust. Long story short family is getting sour. We have just recently learned for the cost per month of the trust we could have a toy hauler/camper. So I would like some input from people and their suggestions. I found this and it seems too good to be true

https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2013-Forest-River-Vengeance-397V-5014014182

I have found some prowler and palomino 2021 brand new which are smaller but new around 30kish.

We have a pioneer 1000-5 and 2 Honda 4 wheelers we would like to tote around.

Our tow rig is a 2003 ram 2500 cummins.

Would a dually be something we should invest in?

We are tossing the idea around of separating ourselves from the monthly cost of the property and investing that money into something that we can have fun in. Thank you all in advance!

Look at the Genesis Supreme models, they have a open garage to living area ( no closed off garage) so you could get one big enough to put all your toys inside...... I live in Texas and these are built and sold on the west coast, but we went to Arizona to purchase ours..............

 

[Remington]

I have a Keystone Carbon and like if very much. Our second from the keystone brand. Everything @JACKAL said is 100% true right down to the garage size. For what your doing and hauling your looking at a dully or a much smaller TH with 2 axels and smaller garage. I have an f350 ps srw crew cab 8’ with 38’ TH 2 axel 11.5 garage 3 slides. with the p1 in the back and gear its as much as i want to go with that set up. Next truck will be a dully. Imo, an 8’ bed is the way to go with a 5th wheel. Had a 6-1/2 one time and hated it. they buck you plus your turning radius is shorter. Again MO.

Where in Mi is your new place? Im in south east Mi and i have a cabin northern Mi in The Gaylord area 45 min south of the big Mac bridge.

 

[tdhanses]

Is it just me but that rear slide out pretty much ruins any space in the garage when towing, there is one pic of the slide in with the garage door up and there is about 3.5-4ft of garage space.

 

[Robobrainiac]

I have a Keystone Carbon and like if very much. Our second from the keystone brand. Everything @JACKAL said is 100% true right down to the garage size. For what your doing and hauling your looking at a dully or a much smaller TH with 2 axels and smaller garage. I have an f350 ps srw crew cab 8’ with 38’ TH 2 axel 11.5 garage 3 slides. with the p1 in the back and gear its as much as i want to go with that set up. Next truck will be a dully. Imo, an 8’ bed is the way to go with a 5th wheel. Had a 6-1/2 one time and hated it. they buck you plus your turning radius is shorter. Again MO.

Where in Mi is your new place? Im in south east Mi and i have a cabin northern Mi in The Gaylord area 45 min south of the big Mac bridge.

I have a Keystone Carbon and like if very much. Our second from the keystone brand. Everything @JACKAL said is 100% true right down to the garage size. For what your doing and hauling your looking at a dully or a much smaller TH with 2 axels and smaller garage. I have an f350 ps srw crew cab 8’ with 38’ TH 2 axel 11.5 garage 3 slides. with the p1 in the back and gear its as much as i want to go with that set up. Next truck will be a dully. Imo, an 8’ bed is the way to go with a 5th wheel. Had a 6-1/2 one time and hated it. they buck you plus your turning radius is shorter. Again MO.

Where in Mi is your new place? Im in south east Mi and i have a cabin northern Mi in The Gaylord area 45 min south of the big Mac bridge.

We have a cabin on La Pointe off of Drummond Island. It was built by my wife's great grandfather. It was passed down to his daughter and son. The son forfeited his share and the daughter owned it. When the daughter passed away it was split 3 ways to the grand children. My wife being one of them.

 

[Remington]

We have a house on La Pointe off of Drummond Island.

We have a cabin on La Pointe off of Drummond Island. It was built by my wife's great grandfather. It was passed down to his daughter and son. The son forfeited his share and the daughter owned it. When the daughter passed away it was split 3 ways to the grand children. My wife being one of them.

Thats real cool! Have ever been to drumond? Its real nice and has some great trails. If your coming from out of state its a good long haul up there so plan on long stays to make it worth your while.

 

[Vikes79]

I’ll probably get some disagreement here but I can assure you the truck will handle it, with that said a dually is more stable in regards to sway but not by much, they also have a higher GVW, I had a 40’ and pulled it with the same truck only a little newer to 10,000’ elevation all the time loaded with my P5, gas, water, etc.
Balance the weight as best you can, stay within the pin weight, make sure the truck runs good, has been serviced, etc.

Nice trailer, kind of a unique design, I’d buy it 😊

There is absolutely zero chance that a 2003 2500 Dodge has the payload capacity or towing capacity to move that monster TH...let alone between the ditches in high wind or mountain passes.

Even the newest 3/4 - 1 ton SRW trucks will be borderline in capacity....definitely white knuckled in heavy cross winds.

I have a 2018 Wolfpack 40’ TH with a 14’ garage. It works for my P1k5. It’s right around 16k fully loaded. My 2016 F350 could pull the wheels off it....but staying in my lane in winds and storms was something else. I added bags, hD shocks, sway bars, tires, trailer equalizers, you name it. Truck was at capacity in every single category or a bit over.




Last July I had enough while on a 1 week camping trip in the Black Hills. The open prairie driving into the Badlands on high cross wind days (30mph) going up and down 3 and 4 mi 10% grades will make you think what your doing for sure while your swaying up and down the grades. Raw power isn’t the issue it’s all suspension...and that a TH is much, much taller than a normal camper. When there wasn’t any wind, the setup drove straight as a arrow.


The return trip was very, very peaceful in the Ram dually we returned in. Not even a comparison. The dually totally eliminated my sway in wind.


The TH shown earlier is dually land all the way. Not even a question. I too once believed it wasn’t necessary for a dually or worth it.

 

[HiFive]

I have a heartland 2414 for my p5 may have room for a small atv in front of p5. I tow with a Tundra, but 3/4 ton or Dually would be better.

 

[Robobrainiac]

I have had 2 Heartland Cylone Toyhaulers with pretty good reliability over 9 years of ownership. The second unit wife and I lived in full time for 8 months which is about 20 years worth of camping use. No significant issues.

Based on your machines if you want to take the Pioneer and both ATVs I recommend you get the 18 ft garage model.

I delivered new RVs to dealerships from factories and hauled 5th wheel Toyhaulers almost exclusively. Doing so I seen about everything there is. One constant it the interiors are all like butterfly wings and anything but delicate use shows wear quickly across all makes. Forrest River and Heartland are generally good brands depends upon how the workers were when building the unit.

If you are looking at big triple axles with 16k-21k. GVWR I definitely recommend a dually one ton diesel. The stability and stopping ability are needed especially if you are towing through mountains of any degree.

Here are some examples of the bigger garage units, it all boils down to budget for RV & Tow pig combined, desired Floorplan, and garage space needs depending upon toys.

Personally after buying a new Toyhauler and 1 ton dually you are looking at 140-160k. If I were doing it again I would go with a 28" enclosed trailer behind a 4x4 Super C motor home such as this

2021 Nexus Rebel 30R 4x4 International® CV™ Series Super C W/ 350HP

mhsrv.com

2021 Dynamax Corp Isata 5 Series 30FW 4x4 Diesel Super C RV W/ Theater Seats, 2 Stage Air Suspension & Solar

mhsrv.com

2021 Nexus Rebel 35R Bunk Model 4x4 International® CV™ Series Super C W/ Exterior Entertainment Center & 350HP

mhsrv.com

My personal favorite:

2021 Thor Motor Coach Magnitude SV34 4x4 330HP Diesel Super C W/ Theater Seats, King Bed

mhsrv.com

No matter what you decide on there is about 40-45% markup from factories to dealerships. So whatever list price is a good deal is about 35% off that.

Thank you so much for all the information! I finally had enough time to sit and look it all over. It took me a couple days the voltage at the top is probably my favorite toy hauler I have seen so far. After alot of research it seems I would be safer in the long run to upgrade my rig before going 40+ feet in length. I did some more looking around and I think I found some forest river toy haulers with 13.5ft garages that may be more my speed. Something to get started with and learn the ropes of the sport/recreation of it all. I found a 32ft bumper pull I liked. The weight seems manageable. I feel I should get a bigger truck before I consider bigger trailers.

 

[Robobrainiac]

Drummond was awesome for us! We spent 3 days on all the trails. We met a jeep group at marble head and watched them go up and down it. We spent hours going up and down the trails out there and took our kayaks on one of the days and went out all over the water. We tried turtle ridge one morning and it was so rutted out it was not enjoyable. We saw bears on 3 different occasions, multiple deer, and some giant birds I can't remember the name of now 🤔 We plan on going again this year but bringing the 4 wheelers so we can use the atv trails. When we went last year we just had our pioneer and kayaks.

Thats real cool! Have ever been to drumond? Its real nice and has some great trails. If your coming from out of state its a good long haul up there so plan on long stays to make it worth your while.

 

[Remington]

Drummond was awesome for us! We spent 3 days on all the trails. We met a jeep group at marble head and watched them go up and down it. We spent hours going up and down the trails out there and took our kayaks on one of the days and went out all over the water. We tried turtle ridge one morning and it was so rutted out it was not enjoyable. We saw bears on 3 different occasions, multiple deer, and some giant birds I can't remember the name of now 🤔 We plan on going again this year but bringing the 4 wheelers so we can use the atv trails. When we went last year we just had our pioneer and kayaks.

Thats cool! I like going there alot. Reminds me in some places of RRB in the spring time. Its about a 2hr trip from my cabin. Will leave about 6am get there about 8 & wait a few for the Fairy (fairy is a 15 min ride! For those of u in Reo Linda) , by the time we get parked and set up its 9:30-10 so u can get a good days ride in and be back to the cabin by 9pm or so. Years ago I did the atv rout with my atv and it will work the hell out of you and can even a P5. My preferred machine is my P1

 

[Robobrainiac]

Thats cool! I like going there alot. Reminds me in some places of RRB in the spring time. Its about a 2hr trip from my cabin. Will leave about 6am get there about 8 & wait a few for the Fairy (fairy is a 15 min ride! For those of u in Reo Linda) , by the time we get parked and set up its 9:30-10 so u can get a good days ride in and be back to the cabin by 9pm or so. Years ago I did the atv rout with my atv and it will work the hell out of you and can even a P5. My preferred machine is my P1

It was our first year just the wife and I alone without family with us so we had a blast it was also our first year we didn't fish. we spent 10 days total on the island. We took the kayaks and pioneer. We spent 3 days trail riding, 1 entire day on drummond just shipping around near mackinac, spent a while day on mackinac Island, spent a whole day swimming at different spots on drummond, spent a whole different day kayaking, then spent a day working on the cabin just doing maintenance, and we were stuck in the cabin a day from rain. On our way home we stopped at silver lake state park and spent a day at the sand dunes. It was easily our favorite vacation we have had. My wife and I are trying to work out the details for RRB because we want to go this year. It will be our first year to there.

 

[Robobrainiac]

I just realized the forest river is 135" not 13.5' of garage space. I found some cruiser stryker bumper pulls around 35ft with 16' garages though.

 

[Remington]

It was our first year just the wife and I alone without family with us so we had a blast it was also our first year we didn't fish. we spent 10 days total on the island. We took the kayaks and pioneer. We spent 3 days trail riding, 1 entire day on drummond just shipping around near mackinac, spent a while day on mackinac Island, spent a whole day swimming at different spots on drummond, spent a whole different day kayaking, then spent a day working on the cabin just doing maintenance, and we were stuck in the cabin a day from rain. On our way home we stopped at silver lake state park and spent a day at the sand dunes. It was easily our favorite vacation we have had. My wife and I are trying to work out the details for RRB because we want to go this year. It will be our first year to there.

Did alot silver lake dunes when i was younger. Haven been in a long time. Seems to have gotten even more crazier with traffic now and it was crazy back then also lol. But you have to go at least once. The big hill is intimidating at first glance.

You have a nice little place there! Sometimes wish mine was there. Really beautiful area.

unforunaltly no RRB for me this year. Dates wont work for me. Thats when we get slammed with AC issues first time of the season. Been there the last 3 times. Will miss going.

 

[Robobrainiac]

Did alot silver lake dunes when i was younger. Haven been in a long time. Seems to have gotten even more crazier with traffic now and it was crazy back then also lol. But you have to go at least once. The big hill is intimidating at first glance.

You have a nice little place there! Sometimes wish mine was there. Really beautiful area.

unforunaltly no RRB for me this year. Dates wont work for me. Thats when we get slammed with AC issues first time of the season. Been there the last 3 times. Will miss going.

I like how you call it "big hill" come on man it's "Big Hills!" when we first saw that hill for the first time when we pulled in it was terrifying. We watched so many people try and fail and succeed. We left it and then played around and watched the drag races and then played some more. Swam a little bit and at the end of the day we went back to that hill and watched some more. I looked at my wife and said will you regret it if we at least don't try and she said yes so I said we need to go. I put it in high, 4wd, sport mode and said we are doing it. I slammed the gas and peaked the hill and then realized what you can't see on the other side is more and more hills and it's a roller coaster until you are done! We did it in a stock p1k5 with factory big horns and it did it the whole way thru. That day was a blast! I also learned that day the benefit of a cvt transmission. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the pioneer was spinning tires in the sand and then shifted and fell on its face because it lost power. Sport mode or manual was definitely the way to go.

 

[Remington]

I like how you call it "big hill" come on man it's "Big Hills!" when we first saw that hill for the first time when we pulled in it was terrifying. We watched so many people try and fail and succeed. We left it and then played around and watched the drag races and then played some more. Swam a little bit and at the end of the day we went back to that hill and watched some more. I looked at my wife and said will you regret it if we at least don't try and she said yes so I said we need to go. I put it in high, 4wd, sport mode and said we are doing it. I slammed the gas and peaked the hill and then realized what you can't see on the other side is more and more hills and it's a roller coaster until you are done! We did it in a stock p1k5 with factory big horns and it did it the whole way thru. That day was a blast! I also learned that day the benefit of a cvt transmission. I can't even begin to tell you how many times the pioneer was spinning tires in the sand and then shifted and fell on its face because it lost power. Sport mode or manual was definitely the way to go.

Thats awesome man. Its is deffenatqy scary and intimidating at the same time! I had an 87’ Yamaha Banshee that i use to sand drag years ago there. Also flipped that same Banshee on that Big Hill on my back. There was a small landslide on the opposite side at the top from the night before and when i got to the top, the weight of the motor went forward and i was about buck 50 then and it took me with it. One rough ride i wont forget. There were many times on opening weekend (memorial day) when we camped in the truck in line waiting for the DNR to open the park. There would be 50-70 trucks in line.

 

[Famousamos14]

I have a heartland 2414 for my p5 may have room for a small atv in front of p5. I tow with a Tundra, but 3/4 ton or Dually would be better.

What year is your 2414? Looking at a holdover 2020 model and curious of P5 fits ok and how it has held up?

 

[Gold-digger]

Pat attention to the ramp door height Pioneer are tall