P700 Transmission/Shifting Issue

[Cboyea]

I have a 2017 Pioneer 2017 700-4 Deluxe. It has about 150 hours on it. It is very difficult to shift between the gears. The shifting lever sticks/is very stiff. The machine also does not seem to know what gear it is in as it shows a dash instead of the “D”. The transmission does not shift out of first gear. If I turn the machine off and back it will sometimes fix the issue and the gear number will show on the dash and it will shift normally. I am not sure what the issue is so I am looking for help. I took the machine into the dealer for the routine service and they did not find any issues with the transmission or shifting, even though I told them about the issues I am having. They said the shifting takes a while to break in and loosen up. I am hoping this is a simple fix. It feels like I just need to live a part somewhere. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Jerryg]

It's not the belt.

 

[DG Rider]

First, just to so we're clear on shifting terms, the 1,2,3rd gears are transmission gears, while the D,N,R are SUB transmission gears.

The "-" means it's not reading the sub tranny gear position. The transmission wont shift right if it can't tell what gear, so you can ignore the transmission issues for now.

700's do always tend to be notchy and clunky when shifting the sub tranny. It's best to "grip it and rip it" with the shifter on them...but yours sounds way beyond that. And then we have the gear position problem.
Check the cable adjustment. The lever set in area around the "N" on the dash should have a tiny amount of slop up or down before it starts to move stuff.

Look at the shift cable for damage or binding. If need be, you can pop the end on the sub tranny off and test how much effort the cable needs to move without it. It should be very little with the end off. If it's heavy here, could need a new cable.

Finally, if the above fails, use your hand to move the little shift lever (with the cable removed) where the cable goes to the sub tranny. Probably best to do this with the engine running for feel, so watch the exhaust. Without the leverage of the shifter, it may take a bit if effort to move, but it should "clack" through 3 distinct detent positions here with the instrument cluster showing the corresponding gear range. If this feels bad or has to be held in position, there may be internal damage, so it might be best to take it back to the dealership.

 

[Cboyea]

Thanks for the input!

Dumb question: How do I check the cable adjustment and how do I check the shift cable? From below? I had a typo in my original message but I meant to say that it feels like something needs to be lubed.

 

[Kc045]

I had same issues and dealer replaced ECM and it shifts perfectly now and they adjusted the shifting cable as well. Mine was stuck in second gear no matter how hard I tried to get it to shift. The dash is a trouble code.

 

[Remington]

Thanks for the input!

Dumb question: How do I check the cable adjustment and how do I check the shift cable? From below? I had a typo in my original message but I meant to say that it feels like something needs to be lubed.

Its called the search button up top! Assuming you haven't fixed it yet? Been almost 2 months and no update

 

[DG Rider]

 

[bartruff]

I did a search but did not find my shifting problem with a 2017 Pioneer.......I had a Big RED for about 10 years with snow tracks and a snow blade and it was faultless. I now have Pioneer with snow tracts and a blade with no manual option.

My 700 works normally until it has been used for about 30 minutes and then it will refuse to shift from forward or reverse into neutral unless the motor is shut off....then it shifts easily into neutral and from there into forward or reverse.

If the engine is shut off it will shift normally with the key on or off and with the key on the dash shows the proper gear.......the other shifting operations are normal. There are no trouble lights or indications of a problem....

I have discussed this with the Dealer and will take it in when it is convenient....but if any of you have any insight, it would be appreciated ......bart

 

[Buggyman]

I did a search but did not find my shifting problem with a 2017 Pioneer.......I had a Big RED for about 10 years with snow tracks and a snow blade and it was faultless. I now have Pioneer with snow tracts and a blade with no manual option.

My 700 works normally until it has been used for about 30 minutes and then it will refuse to shift from forward or reverse into neutral unless the motor is shut off....then it shifts easily into neutral and from there into forward or reverse.

If the engine is shut off it will shift normally with the key on or off and with the key on the dash shows the proper gear.......the other shifting operations are normal. There are no trouble lights or indications of a problem....

I have discussed this with the Dealer and will take it in when it is convenient....but if any of you have any insight, it would be appreciated ......bart

I'm sure some with more knowledge will answer. Don't know about the 2017 but on my 2014 you have to be at a dead stop and have your foot on the brake to shift. have you checked cable adjustments.

 

[bartruff]

I'm sure some with more knowledge will answer. Don't know about the 2017 but on my 2014 you have to be at a dead stop and have your foot on the brake to shift. have you checked cable adjustments.

Yes....I come to a complete stop and have my foot on the brake.....it shifts perfectly when the motor is off so that suggests to me that the cables are in in adjustment and that it is not a mechanical problem...the dealer suggested that I actually take my foot off the brake when this happens to allow the mechanism to get out of any bind.....but that did not help....

I should add that all the fluids have been changed and the oil is the recommended brand and at the right level ........ all the electronics were checked, and the wiring harness replaced this Fall before the vehicle was put into use...and that taking it out of 4-wheel drive and straightening the steering/tracks does not help.....

I have a youngster who is both an Electrical and a Mechanical Engineer and he drove it and experienced the problem and though it might be a faulty solenoid somewhere in the procedure???. As it only happens when it warms up after a half hour of use....

All this technology is annoying to those of us that believe in the KISS principle......as in Keep It Simple Stupid....

 

[Buggyman]

Yes....I come to a complete stop and have my foot on the brake.....it shifts perfectly when the motor is off so that suggests to me that the cables are in in adjustment and that it is not a mechanical problem...the dealer suggested that I actually take my foot off the brake when this happens to allow the mechanism to get out of any bind.....but that did not help....

I should add that all the fluids have been changed and the oil is the recommended brand and at the right level ........ all the electronics were checked, and the wiring harness replaced this Fall before the vehicle was put into use...and that taking it out of 4-wheel drive and straightening the steering/tracks does not help.....

I have a youngster who is both an Electrical and a Mechanical Engineer and he drove it and experienced the problem and though it might be a faulty solenoid somewhere in the procedure???. As it only happens when it warms up after a half hour of use....

All this technology is annoying to those of us that believe in the KISS principle......as in Keep It Simple Stupid....

Aggravating for sure but that's the goal is to make it so you can't work on it. wish ya luck and keep us up to date.

 

[Buggyman]

Yes....I come to a complete stop and have my foot on the brake.....it shifts perfectly when the motor is off so that suggests to me that the cables are in in adjustment and that it is not a mechanical problem...the dealer suggested that I actually take my foot off the brake when this happens to allow the mechanism to get out of any bind.....but that did not help....

I should add that all the fluids have been changed and the oil is the recommended brand and at the right level ........ all the electronics were checked, and the wiring harness replaced this Fall before the vehicle was put into use...and that taking it out of 4-wheel drive and straightening the steering/tracks does not help.....

I have a youngster who is both an Electrical and a Mechanical Engineer and he drove it and experienced the problem and though it might be a faulty solenoid somewhere in the procedure???. As it only happens when it warms up after a half hour of use....

All this technology is annoying to those of us that believe in the KISS principle......as in Keep It Simple Stupid....

just a thought but how is the battery. they seem to be very voltage sensitive. even though it starts might not have enough volts depending on what's drawing on the battery. maybe have it load tested. I would still check cable adj. at both ends to make sure they are at spec with the manual. start with simple basics.

 

[bartruff]

Aggravating for sure but that's the goal is to make it so you can't work on it. wish ya luck and keep us up to date.

The fact that it only happens after 30 minutes of use .....when it has warmed up.... suggests that it is a component in the hydraulic or electrical systems that require a sequencing.

You bet, I will definitely share what they find out....the dealers have the training and access to the manufacturer's engineers ...... yes, I can't work on it ...the Big Red never had a problem but it was much simpler.... didn't even have a dash or a fuel gauge or ....or......or .

 

[bartruff]

just a thought but how is the battery. they seem to be very voltage sensitive. even though it starts might not have enough volts depending on what's drawing on the battery. maybe have it load tested. I would still check cable adj. at both ends to make sure they are at spec with the manual. start with simple basics.

It shows it is charging at 14 .....and there no trouble codes...but thanks I will ask them to do that.......I only use it in the winter, and I don't want any trouble when I am 30 miles out in the backcountry...

 

[Buggyman]

It shows it is charging at 14 .....and there no trouble codes...but thanks I will ask them to do that.......I only use it in the winter, and I don't want any trouble when I am 30 miles out in the backcountry...

It can show good charging voltage and have enough to start but not enough for the sensitive electronics. my orig batt. lasted 7 years. if it's orig. it may be going bad and a load test at any auto parts store or dealer should tell.

 

[bartruff]

It can show good charging voltage and have enough to start but not enough for the sensitive electronics. my orig batt. lasted 7 years. if it's orig. it may be going bad and a load test at any auto parts store or dealer should tell.

Thanks, I will do that....hell it could be the fing seat belt...sequence.....I blame the lawyers and the dumb juries for all this krap........I remember having a new car owner's manual that was about 10 pages....the one I have now has more than a thousand pages in 3 volumes....most of it written by lawyers...... the car is a ICE but has to be plugged in when it is not in use because of all the gee wiz technology.....that I do not need or want....

Sorry for the rant....in the future I will concentrate on the 700-shifting problem....bart

 

[DRZRon1]

test stator

 

[bartruff]

test stator

Thanks....will do....I understand a faulty stator is affected by heat......

 

[DG Rider]

For anyone trying to troubleshoot a Pioneer 700 tranny issues, I always suggest finding a Rincon Service manual online somewhere. It includes information ( like hydraulic flowcharts for each gear ) that aren't present in the Pioneer manual. Could be very useful.

Sounds like something is dragging. Stray hydraulic pressure where there shouldn't be. Or something mechanical.

I guess a faulty biased throttle position sensor could cause this, since the 1st/Reverse clutch isn't engaged until you open the throttle. This is the subtle lunge you feel when opening the throttle slowly from a stop. If the ecm doesn't see the throttle at what it considers "closed", it wouldn't release the clutch, making shifts pretty hard.

Just throwing stuff at the wall.

 

[bartruff]

DG....Thanks.......that might have stuck....the kid engineer said that it didn't actually go into gear until you open the throttle......I didn't know what he was talking about at the time....but I will print the replies out when I take it in to the dealer...

Thoreau had that right !!!