Talon Warranty repairs for Low Gear Shift Issue

[Adam490]

Talon low range shifting problems:
Hey everyone - not long ago I read a post in one of these forums from what sounded like a race related shop. They had a great writeup and photos making the case that it was not the shift cable, but rather the real problem was gear machining not being held to close enough tolerances. Their finding was that the faces of the gear dogs in many machines were off by several thousands and as a result not all three faces were making contact at once. They also said that many of the OEM gears they checked had faces that were not perfectly vertical (perpendicular) , some being off by a full degree or two. If this is true it would be a game changer and if the real issue is sloppy CNC and poor QC it would certainly explain why some riders have this problem while many others don't.
I have spent hours searching but I can't find the original post. If anybody reading this recognizes the post I am referring to please post a reference or link in this thread. It could go a long way for those of us where Aegis is trying to deny the repair claim!

Never saw anything here but did see this on FB yesterday and it sounds like what you're referring to:

 

[Admin]

 

[Hotsauce]

Never saw anything here but did see this on FB yesterday and it sounds like what you're referring to:

View attachment 303169

YES! That is the article. Thank you so much!

 

[Code54]

Any idea what that runs to have done?

 

[Adam490]

Any idea what that runs to have done?

Probably not cheap since I didn't see prices anywhere for any of the stuff they've got on their FB.

 

[HondaTech]

Honda has the fix out now, a new shift star and shaft. This is suppose to engage low better and make cold engagement easier.


We had our RaceCar sub trans run through CryoHeat, i dont believe they performed the above claimed "fix" but it shift smoother after cryo treating and tumbling the entire thing.

 

[fartsalot]

Talon low range shifting problems:
Hey everyone - not long ago I read a post in one of these forums from what sounded like a race related shop. They had a great writeup and photos making the case that it was not the shift cable, but rather the real problem was gear machining not being held to close enough tolerances. Their finding was that the faces of the gear dogs in many machines were off by several thousands and as a result not all three faces were making contact at once. They also said that many of the OEM gears they checked had faces that were not perfectly vertical (perpendicular) , some being off by a full degree or two. If this is true it would be a game changer and if the real issue is sloppy CNC and poor QC it would certainly explain why some riders have this problem while many others don't.
I have spent hours searching but I can't find the original post. If anybody reading this recognizes the post I am referring to please post a reference or link in this thread. It could go a long way for those of us where Aegis is trying to deny the repair claim!

That certainly makes good sense and if true I bet Honda knows that and denies any knowledge of the fact, if not it would cost them lots of money.

 

[Jaredk]

Mines in the shop now for the “updated parts”…we shall see

 

[talon32]

I just dropped my Talon off at the dealer. The low gear is out and will not engage. The service tech told me that Honda will not warranty the sub transmission any more. Honda says that it is user error that is causing the failure. Honda will not even discuss the issue unless I sign a consent to dismantle the sub transmission and send Honda pictures of the parts. Then they will most likely deny the warranty and I will be stuck with the full bill to repair or pay the dealer for dismantling my Talon and return it to me in a box. They quoted $1200 for the repair. $570 of that is parts. I just spent $1200 for an extended warranty for these issues.

 

[906UP]

Never saw anything here but did see this on FB yesterday and it sounds like what you're referring to:

View attachment 303169

I'd be curious to what they're referring to in "micro-polish" the gears. When measuring a ground surface finish we're looking at Rpk (the peaks), Rvk (the valleys) & Ra (the average). There is such a thing as too smooth, a gear with an Ra under 0.10 microns is too smooth to hold oil and will wear rapidly. Typically for a polished gear you want Rpk 0.15-0.10 microns but the Rvk to remain the same as a ground gear, 0.30-0.25 microns. Are they actually measuring surface finish or just making them shiny?

 

[Smitty335]

I'd be curious to what they're referring to in "micro-polish" the gears. When measuring a ground surface finish we're looking at Rpk (the peaks), Rvk (the valleys) & Ra (the average). There is such a thing as too smooth, a gear with an Ra under 0.10 microns is too smooth to hold oil and will wear rapidly. Typically for a polished gear you want Rpk 0.15-0.10 microns but the Rvk to remain the same as a ground gear, 0.30-0.25 microns. Are they actually measuring surface finish or just making them shiny?

I must hold a lot of oil then, I'm not very smooth!

 

[HondaTech]

I'd be curious to what they're referring to in "micro-polish" the gears. When measuring a ground surface finish we're looking at Rpk (the peaks), Rvk (the valleys) & Ra (the average). There is such a thing as too smooth, a gear with an Ra under 0.10 microns is too smooth to hold oil and will wear rapidly. Typically for a polished gear you want Rpk 0.15-0.10 microns but the Rvk to remain the same as a ground gear, 0.30-0.25 microns. Are they actually measuring surface finish or just making them shiny?

When we sent our stuff to CryoHeat they came back almsot chrome looking. But they were just tumble polished i believe to achieve that finish.

We also did the axle cups and balls.

 

[JACKAL]

I just dropped my Talon off at the dealer. The low gear is out and will not engage. The service tech told me that Honda will not warranty the sub transmission any more. Honda says that it is user error that is causing the failure. Honda will not even discuss the issue unless I sign a consent to dismantle the sub transmission and send Honda pictures of the parts. Then they will most likely deny the warranty and I will be stuck with the full bill to repair or pay the dealer for dismantling my Talon and return it to me in a box. They quoted $1200 for the repair. $570 of that is parts. I just spent $1200 for an extended warranty for these issues.

Just curious, I have no dog in this fight "yet". Did you or do you have an aftermarket shift gate installed on your machine?

 

[Jaredk]

I just dropped my Talon off at the dealer. The low gear is out and will not engage. The service tech told me that Honda will not warranty the sub transmission any more. Honda says that it is user error that is causing the failure. Honda will not even discuss the issue unless I sign a consent to dismantle the sub transmission and send Honda pictures of the parts. Then they will most likely deny the warranty and I will be stuck with the full bill to repair or pay the dealer for dismantling my Talon and return it to me in a box. They quoted $1200 for the repair. $570 of that is parts. I just spent $1200 for an extended warranty for these issues.

Your dealer is wrong. They finally got to mine 2 weeks ago and Honda said they’ll warrantee it one time

 

[Rambo]

I just dropped my Talon off at the dealer. The low gear is out and will not engage. The service tech told me that Honda will not warranty the sub transmission any more. Honda says that it is user error that is causing the failure. Honda will not even discuss the issue unless I sign a consent to dismantle the sub transmission and send Honda pictures of the parts. Then they will most likely deny the warranty and I will be stuck with the full bill to repair or pay the dealer for dismantling my Talon and return it to me in a box. They quoted $1200 for the repair. $570 of that is parts. I just spent $1200 for an extended warranty for these issues.

I have a friend that just had low gear replaced under warranty in his 2 seater R & 4 seater x. I would call Honda directly and ask what they’re doing about low gear replacement. If this is your first time with low gear issues, I’d say you have a dishonest dealership!

 

[Montecresto]

Just curious, I have no dog in this fight "yet". Did you or do you have an aftermarket shift gate installed on your machine?

Interesting question. Are you wondering if the AM shift gate is causing or contributing to the problem…

 

[Montecresto]

When we sent our stuff to CryoHeat they came back almsot chrome looking. But they were just tumble polished i believe to achieve that finish.

We also did the axle cups and balls.

So is there an actual update or service recall for the low gear shift problem?

 

[Jaredk]

So is there an actual update or service recall for the low gear shift problem?

No recall but updated parts. I really feel it should be a recall. They kinda made me feel like a jackass when “this is usually caused by shifting gears when not stationary”.
I’m not an idiot and they know there is an issue. Don’t try to blame it on me

 

[HondaTech]

So is there an actual update or service recall for the low gear shift problem?

Just updated parts, no official bulletin. We've yet to install any yet.

 

[906UP]

When we sent our stuff to CryoHeat they came back almsot chrome looking. But they were just tumble polished i believe to achieve that finish.

We also did the axle cups and balls.

That makes more sense, some gear manufacturers will shot peen, sorta like sand blasting, which puts compressive stresses on the surface a few thousandths deep then tumble with an abrasive to relieve.

I haven't had a sub trans apart, are the gear flanks ground from Honda?

 

[Montecresto]

Just updated parts, no official bulletin. We've yet to install any yet.

I’m going to have mine at the dealer for an IGR install. Should I mention that at the time sense he’ll be in there….🤔