P500 Who wants a diff. Lock ?

[rocmar]

Not bragging
sayin..been so long & I've
Done fine without..
you knew it had no locker
when ya bought it..
Shout at honda...
My p5..fine without it
maybe your skills need
that help...mine dont

You wanna argue..I'm asking for help
to figure out why...Honda won't tell
I knew my p5 had no locker
when I bought it...You didn't
Notice...
I'm ok with no locker...
your not...

 

[Bad_bowtie]

Not bragging
sayin..been so long & I've
Done fine without..
you knew it had no locker
when ya bought it..
Shout at honda...
My p5..fine without it
maybe your skills need
that help...mine dont

I don't ride in the desert, maybe you should come to takeover and see a little bit of what riding around here is like. Then you would understand my disappointment in the p5's lack of diff lock and horrible suspension.

Your right, I bought it because it was an upgrade from an old Honda Rancher but now after a year with it would spend the money now on a more capable machine.

I actually went back and deleted that post because I'm trying not to be an asshole lol.

 

[rocmar]

I don't ride in the desert, maybe you should come to takeover and see a little bit of what riding around here is like. Then you would understand my disappointment in the p5's lack of diff lock and horrible suspension.

Your right, I bought it because it was an upgrade from an old Honda Rancher but now after a year with it would spend the money now on a more capable machine.

I actually went back and deleted that post because I'm trying not to be an asshole lol.

I ride more than the desert. ..
1600 miles...to ride a weekend
.....don't make much sense...to me
...some of the best riding...is here in
my backyard.. by 89% of riders
Hope you find...wat suits your needs

 

[chrisC]

There are a lot of different needs for a locker depending on the terrain each of us ride in for sure. Some could use a locker more than others... The same as some are fine with stock tires... Others are not.
I do a lot more going in the winter and a locker would greatly improve performance for me.
I knew it had no locker going in....
But sure hoping one is offered aftermarket!


Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

 

[trigger]

Speaking for any and everyone who's ever been stuck with this machine...'we might have made it through there with a locker'.

 

[rocmar]

Speaking for any and everyone who's ever been stuck with this machine...'we might have made it through there with a locker'.

I been stuck....
but didn't blame it on
..a locker that was never
there...
just sayin

 

[JWB]

Anyone hear anything about progress at Torq-Masters? The last response I got put availability somewhere in Late November.

 

[Chooglin]

Anyone hear anything about progress at Torq-Masters? The last response I got put availability somewhere in Late November.

I have not , I wish they would at least reply to my e-mails and let us all know if there is any progress on this............I hope they didn't ditch the locker!

 

[chrisC]

Anyone hear anything about progress at Torq-Masters? The last response I got put availability somewhere in Late November.

That's the first mention I've heard of a possible release date.
I know what I'm asking Santa for!

 

[SLP82]

I just found this site tonight and this is my first post, but I just wanted to weigh in here on how this locker works in a front end. I have worked on vehicles for the last 20 years. I have been a very active member of Toyota Territory Off-Road Association for over 10 years. I have worked side by side with many fabricators of Shrockworks. We even installed my aussie locker back in the day on the front of my Toyota Tacoma at their shop. I have installed many of these lockers in probably a dozen different models of Toyota. I can tell you first hand how this locker works. In mud, loose dirt, loose soil, turning with the 4 wheel drive engaged is not a huge deal. It will tear up the trail more and one tire will be getting dragged a little while turning as the tires are traveling the same speed yet different distances while turning. Once again, in loose stuff, it is not a big deal. I did notice in my Tacoma that some turns that were extremely tight and I barely made before installing the locker were not able to be made in one forward motion anymore depending on how much traction the ground had. Obviously the more traction you have, the more the front end will fight you. The simple solution to this is to put the vehicle in 2wd where no torque is applied to the front end. No torque = unlocked and will turn normal. Any torque at all and it will lock up. Most people have a misconception about the locker unlocking during turns while in 4wd. This is completely wrong, unless you were able to coast through the turn (zero throttle). If you live in the mountains and often travel on hard rock, and have to make turns, I guarantee you will not like the locker in 4wd. Now in that situation with a lot of traction, I would not see why it would be a issue to simply move to 2wd and your problem is solved. Just understand that your driving habits will have to change a little once you install the front locker. I had some misconception when I installed mine that I would simply have more traction and everything else will be the same. That is not realistic expectations. I am not trying to sway anyone from getting a locker here, I just don't want anyone to be upset with the final outcome. A locker will make a night and day difference in traction and I feel even with the changes that were required in my driving habits off-road, it was well worth the money. The other thing I wanted touch on is please understand that when a differential slips, that is some serious torque that your axles are not having to deal with. Once you lock and differential, and the additional traction no longer allows slipping, all that torque is going to look for the next weak spot. Usually this is in the form of a cv axle. This is especially true when the axles are at more extreme angles such as in a full turn. Once you understand what I call the "rules" of a locker, you shouldn't have a problem. I personally never give much more than half throttle when in a full turn locked. For whatever reason, this is even more true in reverse (I am not a engineer, so I cant explain it). If you want to find out what your axles are made of, just leave it locked and turn the wheel to full lock (turn) and put it in reverse and floor it. Almost always this will result in a broken cv shaft. So just try to keep your wheel semi straight and go easy on the throttle when locked and you will be fine. Sorry for the long post, just thought I might be able to give you all some real world experience on what I encountered with these lockers. They are solid as a rock and I have beat on it for years now and never had a problem. As I said the CV shafts will break long before the differential does, which honestly is a good thing because a diff, transmission, transfer case, or output shafts are all more expensive (and a lot more work) than a cv shaft. I will definitely be getting one of these lockers once it is released.

 

[SLP82]

Oh and to anyone who is thinking of getting a Polaris over a Honda, you should really do some research on their "AWD" system... here is a video that Yamaha made which shows the flaws in many of the designs that Polaris uses including their AWD system.

 

[Mudder]

@SLP82 , do you still think the steering would be hard after reading their description of the racheting design?

"The TORQ Locker™ never technically disengages, but it does allow for wheel spin differentiation so you can turn and steer the vehicle. The Locker achieves wheel speed differentiation through ratcheting. A slight audible click maybe noticeable at low speeds, this is an indication of the locker ratcheting."

 

[Chooglin]

I just found this site tonight and this is my first post, but I just wanted to weigh in here on how this locker works in a front end. I have worked on vehicles for the last 20 years. I have been a very active member of Toyota Territory Off-Road Association for over 10 years. I have worked side by side with many fabricators of Shrockworks. We even installed my aussie locker back in the day on the front of my Toyota Tacoma at their shop. I have installed many of these lockers in probably a dozen different models of Toyota. I can tell you first hand how this locker works. In mud, loose dirt, loose soil, turning with the 4 wheel drive engaged is not a huge deal. It will tear up the trail more and one tire will be getting dragged a little while turning as the tires are traveling the same speed yet different distances while turning. Once again, in loose stuff, it is not a big deal. I did notice in my Tacoma that some turns that were extremely tight and I barely made before installing the locker were not able to be made in one forward motion anymore depending on how much traction the ground had. Obviously the more traction you have, the more the front end will fight you. The simple solution to this is to put the vehicle in 2wd where no torque is applied to the front end. No torque = unlocked and will turn normal. Any torque at all and it will lock up. Most people have a misconception about the locker unlocking during turns while in 4wd. This is completely wrong, unless you were able to coast through the turn (zero throttle). If you live in the mountains and often travel on hard rock, and have to make turns, I guarantee you will not like the locker in 4wd. Now in that situation with a lot of traction, I would not see why it would be a issue to simply move to 2wd and your problem is solved. Just understand that your driving habits will have to change a little once you install the front locker. I had some misconception when I installed mine that I would simply have more traction and everything else will be the same. That is not realistic expectations. I am not trying to sway anyone from getting a locker here, I just don't want anyone to be upset with the final outcome. A locker will make a night and day difference in traction and I feel even with the changes that were required in my driving habits off-road, it was well worth the money. The other thing I wanted touch on is please understand that when a differential slips, that is some serious torque that your axles are not having to deal with. Once you lock and differential, and the additional traction no longer allows slipping, all that torque is going to look for the next weak spot. Usually this is in the form of a cv axle. This is especially true when the axles are at more extreme angles such as in a full turn. Once you understand what I call the "rules" of a locker, you shouldn't have a problem. I personally never give much more than half throttle when in a full turn locked. For whatever reason, this is even more true in reverse (I am not a engineer, so I cant explain it). If you want to find out what your axles are made of, just leave it locked and turn the wheel to full lock (turn) and put it in reverse and floor it. Almost always this will result in a broken cv shaft. So just try to keep your wheel semi straight and go easy on the throttle when locked and you will be fine. Sorry for the long post, just thought I might be able to give you all some real world experience on what I encountered with these lockers. They are solid as a rock and I have beat on it for years now and never had a problem. As I said the CV shafts will break long before the differential does, which honestly is a good thing because a diff, transmission, transfer case, or output shafts are all more expensive (and a lot more work) than a cv shaft. I will definitely be getting one of these lockers once it is released.

I think you are referring to a different locker design then what they are using on the can-ams.

Are these the type you ran in the trucks?

 

[lee]

@SLP82 , do you still think the steering would be hard after reading their description of the racheting design?

Yes, with qualifications.

The problems with this type of system is that the rear wheels do not follow the front wheels.
On a wide turn the difference in turn radius is small, the impact will be minimal and likely unnoticeable.
However, in 4wd on a high traction surface and a tight radius the steering wheel will noticeably fight you.
The front diff is connected to the rear with a solid shaft - no center differential.
Also the rear tires do not track the same as the front.

So, we can assume one front tire is 'ratcheting' and we discount it from consideration - this assumes we are coasting (power off).
Of the remaining 3 tires, the inside front will be on a larger radius than the inside rear.
But all three tires are turning at the same speed.
The net result is the front tire wants to straighten out and you get to fight the steering wheel.

In 2WD there should be little to no impact.

Dose all this mean I'm not interested?
Hell no.
Let me know when they are available so I can send my money in!

 

[Deleted member 3748]

"Trail rated" is kind of a loaded question since there is, to my knowledge, only 1 500 50" er.
As far as all SxS's:
ETX Ranger
450 Ranger
500 Ranger
AC 500 Prowler
Kymco 450 (also loaded, since it and the AC are essentially the same machine).
The old 450 Rhino.
Probably some Asian machine I don't pay much attention to...

What do I win?

My old boss said "the only vehicle that is truly trail rated is a rental car."

 

[Chooglin]

I have no doubt that after this locker install , the 500 is going to drive/feel different from the stock 3 wheel drive. It will most likely try to push while turning and want to continue going straight. I think the design of the torq locker will minimize this quite a bit.

I have done a s*** load of reading on the Can-Am forums , to read there thoughts on the locker. I am seeing very little complaints.There are definitely alot of people asking the same questions on the Can-Am forums ,just like the questions being asked hear............just Google Can Am torq locker.

This is just an example of what I am reading!
Can-Am Maverick Forum

 

[JWB]

I just found this site tonight and this is my first post, but I just wanted to weigh in here on how this locker works in a front end. I have worked on vehicles for the last 20 years. I have been a very active member of Toyota Territory Off-Road Association for over 10 years. I have worked side by side with many fabricators of Shrockworks. We even installed my aussie locker back in the day on the front of my Toyota Tacoma at their shop. I have installed many of these lockers in probably a dozen different models of Toyota. I can tell you first hand how this locker works. In mud, loose dirt, loose soil, turning with the 4 wheel drive engaged is not a huge deal. It will tear up the trail more and one tire will be getting dragged a little while turning as the tires are traveling the same speed yet different distances while turning. Once again, in loose stuff, it is not a big deal. I did notice in my Tacoma that some turns that were extremely tight and I barely made before installing the locker were not able to be made in one forward motion anymore depending on how much traction the ground had. Obviously the more traction you have, the more the front end will fight you. The simple solution to this is to put the vehicle in 2wd where no torque is applied to the front end. No torque = unlocked and will turn normal. Any torque at all and it will lock up. Most people have a misconception about the locker unlocking during turns while in 4wd. This is completely wrong, unless you were able to coast through the turn (zero throttle). If you live in the mountains and often travel on hard rock, and have to make turns, I guarantee you will not like the locker in 4wd. Now in that situation with a lot of traction, I would not see why it would be a issue to simply move to 2wd and your problem is solved. Just understand that your driving habits will have to change a little once you install the front locker. I had some misconception when I installed mine that I would simply have more traction and everything else will be the same. That is not realistic expectations. I am not trying to sway anyone from getting a locker here, I just don't want anyone to be upset with the final outcome. A locker will make a night and day difference in traction and I feel even with the changes that were required in my driving habits off-road, it was well worth the money. The other thing I wanted touch on is please understand that when a differential slips, that is some serious torque that your axles are not having to deal with. Once you lock and differential, and the additional traction no longer allows slipping, all that torque is going to look for the next weak spot. Usually this is in the form of a cv axle. This is especially true when the axles are at more extreme angles such as in a full turn. Once you understand what I call the "rules" of a locker, you shouldn't have a problem. I personally never give much more than half throttle when in a full turn locked. For whatever reason, this is even more true in reverse (I am not a engineer, so I cant explain it). If you want to find out what your axles are made of, just leave it locked and turn the wheel to full lock (turn) and put it in reverse and floor it. Almost always this will result in a broken cv shaft. So just try to keep your wheel semi straight and go easy on the throttle when locked and you will be fine. Sorry for the long post, just thought I might be able to give you all some real world experience on what I encountered with these lockers. They are solid as a rock and I have beat on it for years now and never had a problem. As I said the CV shafts will break long before the differential does, which honestly is a good thing because a diff, transmission, transfer case, or output shafts are all more expensive (and a lot more work) than a cv shaft. I will definitely be getting one of these lockers once it is released.

Thanks for the info! I was half way expecting to experience exactly what you describe, and believe it's also why the president of the company recommended that the locker not be installed in a machine without power steering. Something I would like to add: Whenever you take a machine that was designed with very broad range of use in mind, and modify it with a focus on a considerably narrower use, there will always be something that has to be sacrificed in one area, to make a gain in another. As much as I don't like to admit that, it's just the way it is. We're going to give up some of the tight turning abilities of the P500, (in 4wd) to gain a substantial improvement in traction, and there will be a learning curve. I am willing to learn!
Is the damn thing ready yet!?!?

 

[JWB]

Yes, with qualifications.

The problems with this type of system is that the rear wheels do not follow the front wheels.
On a wide turn the difference in turn radius is small, the impact will be minimal and likely unnoticeable.
However, in 4wd on a high traction surface and a tight radius the steering wheel will noticeably fight you.
The front diff is connected to the rear with a solid shaft - no center differential.
Also the rear tires do not track the same as the front.

So, we can assume one front tire is 'ratcheting' and we discount it from consideration - this assumes we are coasting (power off).
Of the remaining 3 tires, the inside front will be on a larger radius than the inside rear.
But all three tires are turning at the same speed.
The net result is the front tire wants to straighten out and you get to fight the steering wheel.

In 2WD there should be little to no impact.

Dose all this mean I'm not interested?
Hell no.
Let me know when they are available so I can send my money in!

"pay no attention to that man behind the curtain" Yup- just watch the light show and don't ask questions.... Whenever I quote that famous line, I just get a blank look... Nice to know there's a few that still get it!

 

[pFive]

We have a 2wd lever on the dash..I don't recall using it but it might be cheaper than power steering. I would be fine with just using 4wd when I need 4wd.

 

[Chooglin]

We have a 2wd lever on the dash..I don't recall using it but it might be cheaper than power steering. I would be fine with just using 4wd when I need 4wd.

This is my thought also!!!!!!!!!