P700 700-4 Hard cold weather starting

[KevP700-4]

Kinda off topic. You think he poured gas on it to end the pain? Or maybe just to get the old rubber band off?

 

[Admin]

 

[Glock21user]

Kinda off topic. You think he poured gas on it to end the pain? Or maybe just to get the old rubber band off?

Probably to try and end the nagging pain of buying an over hyped dung heap.

 

[The Welder]

Well first time starting the 2019 700-4 in -25 Celsius weather in northern Alberta since I had the AGM car battery installed (under driver seat) with a battery warmer and a Canadian polar pad (75 watts, mounted on the side of the pan) on the oil pan. I let it warm up for three hours before starting attempt. Guess what? It fired up on the first try!!!!! No issues at all. I’ve stated before on this forum with the Yuasa 16 battery it took 20 tries. With a very old and weak booster it did it in nine. No heating pad installed. I’m thoroughly impressed with my two add ons. I think next time I’ll reduce the polar pad warm uptime to 2 hrs and see how it is. I do run the Honda 0 weight oil also, stock plugs.

 

[Glock21user]

Well first time starting the 2019 700-4 in -25 Celsius weather in northern Alberta since I had the AGM car battery installed (under driver seat) with a battery warmer and a Canadian polar pad (75 watts, mounted on the side of the pan) on the oil pan. I let it warm up for three hours before starting attempt. Guess what? It fired up on the first try!!!!! No issues at all. I’ve stated before on this forum with the Yuasa 16 battery it took 20 tries. With a very old and weak booster it did it in nine. No heating pad installed. I’m thoroughly impressed with my two add ons. I think next time I’ll reduce the polar pad warm uptime to 2 hrs and see how it is. I do run the Honda 0 weight oil also, stock plugs.

That is some great data to have thank you @The Welder .

 

[The Welder]

Hello again. I decided to experiment again with the cold starts! So I plugged in the polar pad and the battery warmer for about 50 mins instead the three hours like the first time. Temperature in the unheated garage was -24 Celsius or about -11 Fahrenheit. This time it took three short tries. I have to admit I should have just nudged the gas pedal a hair on the first try. On the third short try I just barely touched the gas and she fired up with no pops, hissy fits or rage. I figure two hours (or maybe even 1 1/2 hr) plugged in should be good, depending on the temps obviously. The starter never laboured. I’ve never experienced such great starts in Canadian cold (it’s different from American cold lol) from this machine until now. The battery I use is a magna charge which has 600 cold cranking amps. The only add ons I have are a KFI plow, an inferno heater and a cigarette plug in volt meter/usb.

If I can help it, I won’t start her up without being plugged in when the temps really drop. I hope this helps someone with cold starts. I know we all want any machine to fire up right away in the cold. Sometimes the machines need a bit of help.

 

[john790]

I would not short plug in times. If you want to ck when you lay your hand on the engine and it fills like a loaf of warm bread you are golden.Time wise.It will start like summer.Plus warm up time will be cut in half.

 

[caverat]

I agree with @DG Rider on the 20 hrs or 100 miles as it is known to anyone familiar with a Honda.
One of two options exist the way I see it.
Do the required service at the proper intervals then enjoy or go buy something else and deal with different issues mostly more severe.
Why is this difficult for people to understand.
I have a friend that hates his 700 because he has added so much weight it is a big pig and he can't seem to understand homemade tube bumpers and winches, big tires and wheels on a ghetto lift, tools, hi lifter jacks, dual batteries (both truck batteries), steel top, 2 spares and more freaking lights than any 4 of us would need have really robbed from what he has.
He will never admit it has anything to do with him and he blames Honda for his own actions.
They are pretty simple machines that fall into a very attractive price range but there are trade offs.
Adjust the valves and ride.

Yes I totally agree! I fell right into this trap!!! it was a great little machine when I first bought it Still is. And I still love it! But when you Start F-ing around turning it into what its not and wasn't designed to be your going to pay not only in cash but power loss and it dose not have any to spare.

 

[Glock21user]

Yes I totally agree! I fell right into this trap!!! it was a great little machine when I first bought it Still is. And I still love it! But when you Start F-ing around turning it into what its not and wasn't designed to be your going to pay not only in cash but power loss and it dose not have any to spare.

Well said my friend.

 

[BobRack]

So I do not have a plow on it yet as using my old reliable poo 6x6 but I intend on getting rid of it and putting a plow on the Honda for next winter. Issue is I have gone to use the honda a few times since we had such little snow and it starts extremely hard, one time I just gave up as didn't want to kill the battery. Its EFI and my EFI sleds I just turn key, let it build up pressure and then turn to start and it runs. This rig does not want to stay running, it pops and tries to start but doesn't, if I hold the starter on past the first pop it continues to intermittently fire. But stops as soon as I turn the starter off.

I did get it started a couple times by feathering the gas while engaging the starter which you shouldn't do with an EFI is my experience.

Anyone have issues like this and have any recommendations? It still has the gas it came with from the dealer in October I am thinking of adding some dry gas and filling the tank up its about 2/3s full by the gauge.

Thanks

Phil

Unfortunately this is a common issue with the 700. Most just keep a tender on the battery. You can crank the 700 over like there's no tomorrow and won't fire up. They are rather picky about the voltage. For a EFI you'd think it would start easier in cold weather. But that's not the case.

 

[KevP700-4]

Just started our 2021 after sitting in -17 to -11* over night. Temp was -11* at start attempt. It was on a tender prior to start. The crank time was 5 secs. For all its worth, I would not have been surprised if it cranked 30 secs. Guess I’m lucky.

My Ariens snow blower with EFI started on the first attempt with a 1/2 pull on the cord. Honda should contact Ariens for a fix. Haha, or add a pull cord👍

 

[Irish1]

Not that expensive to adjust valves. But it all depends upon your dealer. If you search it on here or there is threads on how to adjust those valves. Basically you're checking the valve lash. When it's warmed I'll be just fine. The problem is when they're cold you could have some issues and cold start. Not saying this is the problem but I'm a process of elimination person I don't jump into the most difficult things right off the bat as a technician. I go with easy stuff first right down the line and check mark it off. If your mechanical you can do it yourself It can be a little involved

Just had a look after your advice to look for the link here to do the valve inspection. Not a difficult job, just need the right feeler gauges which by a miracle I had. Fortunately or unfortunately that isn't the problem. Within specs. I have some iridium plugs I am planning to put in before next cold snap. I also got a deal on a 200w magnetic block heater for the metal plate just below oil pan. I think is will generate plenty of heat on colder mornings. I just don't want to depend on it as I am often in the back country. I have noticed the new larger battery has helped. Seems consistently better now at -15C to -17C maybe that is all I can expect. I hear some saying to give some throttle but in my experience it is very easy to food a cold engine doing that. I have had POS's that would go in far colder. I plan to summarize all that I have done once I get it narrowed down as best I can.
Cheers.

 

[schmuck]

Hi guys, I have a 2017 700 and it is slower to start in cold wx, I turn my key to the on position, let the screen run thru all of it's actions and then crank engine. If it doesn't catch in short order I let the key go back to on position for about 5-10 more seconds and then crank again. This so far has always worked even when temps are in the teens Fahrenheit. Hope this helps

 

[ckeele223]

I would start out with fresh gas for sure, I have been storing gas and using this ethanol fuel in my bikes and boats etc. since it was first forced upon us by Obama in 2008 I think it was, I have made it a habit all these years of searching for fuel that is free of any ethanol, our Maverick stores have it and quite a few Sinclair stations here in Utah, but no matter where I buy my fuel I ALWAYS add a stabilizer, Seafoam works great, or Stabil. The only vehicle I buy the 10% ethanol for is our everyday drivers which are used enough to keep the gas fairly fresh. Ethanol fuel deteriorates quickly and develops what is known as ( phase separation ), which means the real corrosive nasty part separates and once separated it will never mix with the other parts of the fuel again.

 

[Irish1]

Just an update. Started this morning at -18C. Let it run for 10min. Tried starting it an hour and a half later, no go. Decided to try putting in the iridium plugs I got to earlier as possibly part of the solution. Taking out old plugs they were dry. Someone mentioned an upgrade to problem with fuel pump in models same era as mine. I am now down that rabbit hole. I put a heater on it and it didn't help. It is new for it to not start once it has gone for me. Usually good until it sits overnight again. Perhaps problem is getting less intermittent and showing itself. Might have to take it in and see about fuel pump. I have always used premium as here in Canada that is only way to dodge the ethenol and have looked at fuel quality and particulate and it wasn't the issue but maybe the pump is.

 

[Glock21user]

Just an update. Started this morning at -18C. Let it run for 10min. Tried starting it an hour and a half later, no go. Decided to try putting in the iridium plugs I got to earlier as possibly part of the solution. Taking out old plugs they were dry. Someone mentioned an upgrade to problem with fuel pump in models same era as mine. I am now down that rabbit hole. I put a heater on it and it didn't help. It is new for it to not start once it has gone for me. Usually good until it sits overnight again. Perhaps problem is getting less intermittent and showing itself. Might have to take it in and see about fuel pump. I have always used premium as here in Canada that is only way to dodge the ethenol and have looked at fuel quality and particulate and it wasn't the issue but maybe the pump is.

Use a set of jumper cables and a vehicle, crank it over and see if it starts easier.
If it does then you know it is lacking sufficient energy to start and even the next size up battery just isn't enough.
Also verify all of your battery connections are in good shape and clean.
If it doesn't start then you will need to look into the fuel side.
I wager it is not fuel if hear the fuel pump building pressure when you first turn on the key.
Bad fuel is something else entirely and would need to be drained out and replenished with a known good fuel.
Verify the air filter is in good shape and not either plugged up or maybe mouse shredded.
Start with these simple things and post results so we can try to help.

 

[Irish1]

All that discussed above but thanks. Large battery refit and charged up, faulty relay resolved, fuel changed in the fall and it was fine, new spark plugs, valves checked and it is down to fuel pump.

 

[Glock21user]

All that discussed above but thanks. Large battery refit and charged up, faulty relay resolved, fuel changed in the fall and it was fine, new spark plugs, valves checked and it is down to fuel pump.

Now there is a plan.

 

[mpilihp]

Have you tried regular (87) gas?

Seems like the 700 has always been a stubborn starter in deep cold. There is a video out there somewhere where you crank it over a few times to load it up a bit, then give it another go with some throttle.

Something like this...

Thats exactly what mine sounds like but worse as it wouldnt start. I just got back from camp with some ethonal free fuel and will be giving that a try along with a battery booster.

Phil

 

[mpilihp]

So last night it was 40F outside, turned key on let fuel pump run and build up pressure and stop then cranked it over and it fired right up. So kinda not thinking its a bad fuel issue or a battery power issue as it cranked about the same speed.. But anyhow since I bought some I drained out the original gas it came with, filled it with the ethanol free gas and started it back up and let it run for 15 minutes and shut it down. Will try it again next time its 10F outside.

Someone earlier mentioned that you can expect issues when the maint hasnt been done. This sxs is brand new, only has 4 hours run time on it, once it hits 20 I will bring it in for that maint but it should easily start in the cold.

Thanks for the suggestions, if it doesnt start next time Ill check the battery voltage and try a battery booster on it and see if it starts then.

Phil

 

[valk1520]

Hi folks, I have a 2021 pioneer 700-4 deluxe. Like many here it has been a disappointment with cold weather starting. I have tried the larger battery, plugs, valve adjustment, checking voltage at every point, with no improvement. After I did the valve adjustment, first time, 700 miles and way loose, I attempted to start it. The usual happened lot's of cranking, no start. I pulled the plugs thinking it was flooded but the plugs were dry. So I tried 1/4 pedal and cranked it over about 4 turns, let off the key and released the pedal and cranked it again and it fired right up. I have been cold starting it this way since and it has worked great every time, 17 degrees F out this morning and it started right up doing it this way. Anyway hope it helps someone else.