P1000 Burning oil. Rings?

[Smitty335]

If it is an injector issue which cylinder is struggling.

Dumb question, is there any way to test valve guides other than tearing the head down? We talked a little about this at the TO.

 

[HBarlow]

Dumb question, is there any way to test valve guides other than tearing the head down? We talked a little about this at the TO.

Not that I know of. A low reading on a compression check would suggest worn piston rings, need for a valve job, or worn valve guides but would not specifically identify valve guides.

Perhaps a skilled mechanic knows a way but I don't.

Edit: I thought about this after I posted and realized what I wrote is not correct. I don't think a compression check can identify worn valve guides because the engine builds compression when both valves are closed. Blue exhaust smoke and oil consumption suggest worn piston rings and worn valve guides.

Perhaps a skilled and experienced mechanic (not a tech) can "feel" worn valve guides by holding a valve in hand and wobbling it in the valve guide?? I don't know.

 

[Ohio4x4]

Dumb question, is there any way to test valve guides other than tearing the head down? We talked a little about this at the TO.

Not that i know of. Ive seen my brother and uncle use dial indicators or calipers and spin the values in a lathe very slow. Once they sowed my the wear on the valve stem it made sense that the guides were also worn.

 

[Remington]

Dumb question, is there any way to test valve guides other than tearing the head down? We talked a little about this at the TO.

Negative ghost rider!
Indications without tearing them down is a puff of blue smoke at start up or continual oil blow by.

 

[Bombardier Convert]

Negative ghost rider!
Indications without tearing them down is a puff of blue smoke at start up or continual oil blow by.

I dont know if this has anything to do with this issue but it is kind of similar. I also have a 1995 Honda TRX300 Fourtrax that I bought well used a few years ago and it would spew blue smoke out at cold start ups. After warming up good the blue smoke was gone and the wheeler ran great. So figuring it was the valves and valve guides I tore it down and replaced the guides and ground the valves. They really did not look bad actually to begin with. Upon the first start up there was no blue smoke so I was happy! It sat for a few days and I went to start it up again and out came the damn blue smoke again until it warmed up and cleared. The wheeler ran great otherwise and still does but still has blue smoke at start ups, UNLESS it sits for several weeks and then NO blue smoke. Then smoke again on the next start up a day later. Sorry if this has nothing to do with this particular problem.

 

[Remington]

I dont know if this has anything to do with this issue but it is kind of similar. I also have a 1995 Honda TRX300 Fourtrax that I bought well used a few years ago and it would spew blue smoke out at cold start ups. After warming up good the blue smoke was gone and the wheeler ran great. So figuring it was the valves and valve guides I tore it down and replaced the guides and ground the valves. They really did not look bad actually to begin with. Upon the first start up there was no blue smoke so I was happy! It sat for a few days and I went to start it up again and out came the damn blue smoke again until it warmed up and cleared. The wheeler ran great otherwise and still does but still has blue smoke at start ups, UNLESS it sits for several weeks and then NO blue smoke. Then smoke again on the next start up a day later. Sorry if this has nothing to do with this particular problem.

No your good.
Typically when you change the valve guides, generally good pratice is to change the valves as well and check the heads and reset the seating for the valve at the head. You can mike the valve for tolerance for the VG but like i said above generally its good practice when doing them to replace the valve or you can get the intermittent blue smoke like you had.
My disclaimer is that this is the guidelines I learned in collage when I was studying for engine building. Some may do things different.

 

[Jerryg]

No your good.
Typically when you change the valve guides, generally good pratice is to change the valves as well and check the heads and reset the seating for the valve at the head. You can mike the valve for tolerance for the VG but like i said above generally its good practice when doing them to replace the valve or you can get the intermittent blue smoke like you had.
My disclaimer is that this is the guidelines I learned in collage when I was studying for engine building. Some may do things different.

Yes, if the valve guides are worn, so are the valve stems. And def need to cut and lap new seats.

 

[Bombardier Convert]

Thanks for the replies guys! Knowing what I know now, I should have replaced the valves with the new guides! I had never done much deep engine work before that and I was just happy to even get the thing going again.. lol.. had engine parts laid out everywhere.. plus I had to deal with a broken head bolt which cost me $80 to have a shop ream out.. I figure as long as it still runs good otherwise I will just live with the intermittent blue smoke at some but not all startups. I seldom need to add oil to it but I check level all the time! Now that I have the P1K-3 it doesn't get used much anymore... lol!

 

[Jerryg]

Thanks for the replies guys! Knowing what I know now, I should have replaced the valves with the new guides! I had never done much deep engine work before that and I was just happy to even get the thing going again.. lol.. had engine parts laid out everywhere.. plus I had to deal with a broken head bolt which cost me $80 to have a shop ream out.. I figure as long as it still runs good otherwise I will just live with the intermittent blue smoke at some but not all startups. I seldom need to add oil to it but I check level all the time! Now that I have the P1K-3 it doesn't get used much anymore... lol!

That's pretty odd that you got away without having to cut new valve seats. Did you lap the valves and get a good seat?

 

[Bombardier Convert]

That's pretty odd that you got away without having to cut new valve seats. Did you lap the valves and get a good seat?

I did lap the valves and the seat. A good fit I thought at the time..

 

[Jerryg]

I did lap the valves and the seat. A good fit I thought at the time..

That's a testament to Honda's excellent machining process right there.

We weren't that lucky back in the old days. Cutting the seats correctly takes some practice and some expensive tools.

 

[Bombardier Convert]

That's a testament to Honda's excellent machining process right there.

We weren't that lucky back in the old days. Cutting the seats correctly takes some practice and some expensive tools.

My wife still has and uses a 1993 Fourtrax 300 we bought new.. it has been very well used but never abused and always well maintained. It still runs great! Plugs and batteries are all that have been needed so far. Oh and a new seat recovered! Sorry off topic again...

 

[Jerryg]

My wife still has and uses a 1993 Fourtrax 300 we bought new.. it has been very well used but never abused and always well maintained. It still runs great! Plugs and batteries are all that have been needed so far. Oh and a new seat recovered! Sorry off topic again...

The Honda stuff from the 90's were indestructible.

 

[Remington]

I did lap the valves and the seat. A good fit I thought at the time..

Did u check the tolerance of the stems from what the service manual specs were?
My guess was that they were close just a tooter tatter out of spec.

 

[DRZRon1]

just give a start every day and the blue smoke issue will be solved - lol.....

Thanks for the replies guys! Knowing what I know now, I should have replaced the valves with the new guides! I had never done much deep engine work before that and I was just happy to even get the thing going again.. lol.. had engine parts laid out everywhere.. plus I had to deal with a broken head bolt which cost me $80 to have a shop ream out.. I figure as long as it still runs good otherwise I will just live with the intermittent blue smoke at some but not all startups. I seldom need to add oil to it but I check level all the time! Now that I have the P1K-3 it doesn't get used much anymore... lol!

 

[Bombardier Convert]

Did u check the tolerance of the stems from what the service manual specs were?
My guess was that they were close just a tooter tatter out of spec.

No I didn't think to do that. Another lesson learned the hard way. If I had to do it over again I would be alot more detail oriented for sure. That was the first tear down to that point I had ever done. I did do the valve clearance adjustment! I actually bought quite a few tools just to do this job myself. I was actually pretty proud of the results for that initial startup..

 

[Remington]

No I didn't think to do that. Another lesson learned the hard way. If I had to do it over again I would be alot more detail oriented for sure. That was the first tear down to that point I had ever done. I did do the valve clearance adjustment! I actually bought quite a few tools just to do this job myself. I was actually pretty proud of the results for that initial startup..

I get it. Nothing wrong with trying and making mistakes. How else are you gonna learn? Kudos to u for tying

 

[Jerryg]

Is it possible you have some oil pooled up in the muffler? Try running it without the exhaust and see if it's still smoking.

 

[Bombardier Convert]

Is it possible you have some oil pooled up in the muffler? Try running it without the exhaust and see if it's still smoking.

Good point! Thanks!

 

[Bombardier Convert]

Is it possible you have some oil pooled up in the muffler? Try running it without the exhaust and see if it's still smoking.

It is still strange that if it sits long enough like for weeks that it does not smoke for that first start up, but a day or week later it smokes.. guess maybe I should have my own thread? Lol... apologies to the IP for sort of taking it over..