P1000 Confused as to which Amsoil Oil

[Plumber101010]

Looks good. Is that a 6' x 10' trailer you have it on?

No sir, it's a 6x12. I wanted a 6 x 10' but dealer said it was too small.

And come to find out when I saw it on there he was correct! 6 x 10 would've been too tight, as it's 9 foot long not counting the winch and snow plow which makes it over 10 feet

It's a Cooper trailer. Paid $1300. Really like it. Same price as the ones they sell at Lowe's and Home Depot but a much better built trailer.

 

[Admin]

 

[ghost]

I think you had a typo also, I think you meant to say doesn't

Yeah - thanks.
I fixeed it

 

[Plumber101010]

OK here we go, directly from Amsoil themselves:

We are in the process of adding AUV40 to the 2016 Honda Pioneer 1000, in our
Powersports lookup guide.(my words, translated that means the website)

Also, we are going to be adding API SL,
and JASO MA to this product label, when
we reorder labels. This being said, our
current product that does not list these specs, does satisfy these specifications.

Knowing this, AUV40 (me: UTV 10-40) is the correct oil for this application.

Feel free to share this information

 

[ghost]

That's funny - it's exactly what I wanted to hear

 

[ghost]

If they didn't have such a good reputation, I'd be more concerned.
It seems odd for a company to formulate and certify a product like that and not put it on their website or labels.
I'm sure its fine - just odd...

 

[Plumber101010]

If they didn't have such a good reputation, I'd be more concerned.
It seems odd for a company to formulate and certify a product like that and not put it on their website or labels.
I'm sure its fine - just odd...

I have a tendency to agree. Never could figure it out. The only logic I could come up with (assuming it wasnt an oversight which I find hardER to swallow) is they were trying to make a clear distinction between motorcycle and UTV and at the time labels went out, the UTV formula wasn't concentrating on the fact that it was approved for a motorcycle as they were two different beasts.

But I have never known a company to NOT list a certification as its only a plus..

That was why when I first noticed it six months ago I called to find out because I knew it had to be, but I just couldn't figure out why it wasn't.

 

[Plumber101010]

I have a tendency to agree. Never could figure it out. The only logic I could come up with (assuming it wasnt an oversight which I find hardER to swallow) is they were trying to make a clear distinction between motorcycle and UTV and at the time labels went out, the UTV formula wasn't concentrating on the fact that it was approved for a motorcycle as they were two different beasts.

But I have never known a company to NOT list a certification as its only a plus..

That was why when I first noticed it six months ago I called to find out because I knew it had to be, but I just couldn't figure out why it wasn't.

The one thing that makes me feel better, as if it wasn't for that, I would feel more like you. Is when I called to ask, I could hear him punching it in the computer and more or less reading directly off the screen, so I knew it wasn't something they pulled out of a hat.

 

[tig]

There is also the distinct possibility that all the 10w-40 is same stuff in different bottles...

 

[Plumber101010]

There is also the distinct possibility that all the 10w-40 is same stuff in different bottles...

LMAO! Funny and good point, because I was in the middle of writing yet another reply while thinking the same thing, who is to say there is no difference between the motorcycle and UTV oil?

I mean how much more work and how different could the formula possibly be between the two when both are designed for wet clutches?

If you really stop to think about it, why would you advertise an oil is approved for use in a motorcycle when this oil doesn't belong in a motorcycle?

It be like saying it's approved for an outboard motor when they have their own outboard motor oil and it's called a different name for a different application?

 

[Plumber101010]

Let's look at the upside I didn't think of until this very moment.

Because I called and directed my Amsoil rep to please read these posts and made a lot of calls and wrote a lot of emails, as others ON THIS FORUM were doing the exact same thing, I/we/us/you actually got a very large company to change something.. Team effort from this forum and this forum only. Things can change

Don't know about you all, but that's a first in my lifetime. Normally I'm just breathing hard in vain

 

[Plumber101010]

From a mechanical aspect, heck from a theoretical one, I really don't have a clue what a wet clutch really means. The only thing I know about it is that it's surrounded and submerged in oil.

In a car or truck I understand it perfectly, because it works off of friction. What I can't understand is how a clutch ever works bathed in oil?

That seems to be a contradiction??
Wouldn't that just make it slip all the time!

What am I missing here?

 

[Crow_Hunter]

From a mechanical aspect, heck from a theoretical one, I really don't have a clue what a wet clutch really means. The only thing I know about it is that it's surrounded and submerged in oil.

In a car or truck I understand it perfectly, because it works off of friction. What I can't understand is how a clutch ever works bathed in oil?

That seems to be a contradiction??
Wouldn't that just make it slip all the time!

What am I missing here?

There are many different "types" of friction. Not just the one that you are thinking of.

Friction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But the basics are if you have a good coefficient of friction and have sufficient "normal" forces, you will couple the joint.

From my understanding, the wet clutch helps keep heat related failures down when the clutch does slip and they will as they couple and decouple. But, if you introduce something into the mix that wasn't in the original design, like Molybdenum, you will be altering that friction coefficient and just like with a grinding wheel, if you glaze the plates, they won't "bite" anymore and will just slip and burnish each other instead of coupling. Probably until they get so hot that they delaminate and bits and pieces go floating through your engine and transmission.

 

[Plumber101010]

Yep, research garnered the same kind of reply. And I still don't get it LOL.

It must be some type of an engineering principle too scientific for my little brain..

It's needs to be dumbed down for me!

Normally I'm very happy to be blissfully ignorant on such topics and just enjoy my toy knowing there are others that do get it and can fix it when it breaks.

But all this talk about oil and reading many times about oil type affecting the wet clutch, got me thinking. For an internal combustion engine, I get how synthetic works.

But for principles of the wet clutch can't help but think it could have a different impact. But that's based on knowing what effect it has to begin with!

Then the other side says, 10-30 is 10-30
and if Honda calls for it on a clutch, then principles have to be the exact same, even if I'm clueless to the principle!

 

[Plumber101010]

Run honda oil. Your all stupid. Even you fry.

Let's make things as complicated as possible.

I bought 6 quarts oil and 2 filters 62 bucks.

They sell synthetic if you want.

View attachment 16301

Your mastery of the English language is showing again boom boom.

Calling everyone stupid because YOU chose regular over synthetic, a debate that will rage on for another few decades is probably not the best approach.

That's a chart made by Honda. Bet ya anything Amsoil has a chart too showing the opposite.

Seeing as how synthetics best upside is cold weather, I'd think Alaska is where it's better used.

Do you really think Honda makes its own oil, has a refinery outback, made specifically for its Honda engines?

It's a rebranded and relabeled like most. If you research this, you'll see the oil is identical, repeat identical to Ford motor oil, ALL MADE BY CONOCOPHILLIPS.

One of a zillion links: News from Petroleum Trends International, Inc.

So you think Fords oil, IDENTICAL to Hondas, was made with the P1000 in mind??? Or Hondas ENTIRE automobile engine line just happens to have the EXACT same Ford Motor Company?

Know WHY it's rebranded? Cuz Honda makes MONEY by doing so. They charge YOU more money selling YOU the same oil that can be found cheaper because it has Hondas name on it.

They have people that do nothing but take oil and put it under a microscope and break it down so you can see truly what kind of oil it is.

I trust those guys a lot more than I do a company that slaps a label on it and says "uses ours, its best"

And of course the best one, the fear factor, for warranty purposes... You are being had boom boom and that why people use Amsoil

 

[Boomboom907]

Your mastery of the English language is showing again boom boom.

Calling everyone stupid because YOU chose regular over synthetic, a debate that will rage on for another few decades is probably not the best approach.

That's a chart made by Honda. Bet ya anything Amsoil has a chart too showing the opposite.

Seeing as how synthetics best upside is cold weather, I'd think Alaska is where it's better used.

Do you really think Honda makes its own oil, has a refinery outback, made specifically for its Honda engines?

It's a rebranded and relabeled like most. If you research this, you'll see the oil is identical, repeat identical to Ford motor oil, ALL MADE BY CONOCOPHILLIPS.

One of a zillion links: News from Petroleum Trends International, Inc.

So you think Fords oil, IDENTICAL to Hondas, was made with the P1000 in mind??? Or Hondas ENTIRE automobile engine line just happens to have the EXACT same Ford Motor Company?

Know WHY it's rebranded? Cuz Honda makes MONEY by doing so. They charge YOU more money selling YOU the same oil that can be found cheaper because it has Hondas name on it.

They have people that do nothing but take oil and put it under a microscope and break it down so you can see truly what kind of oil it is.

I trust those guys a lot more than I do a company that slaps a label on it and says "uses ours, its best"

You make it sound as if synthetic is this amazing beast and if you use regular oil it will wear out your engine.

It's oil. Use whatever you want. Honda wouldn't sell s***, and wouldn't recommend s*** oil.

Your logic reminds me of 1911 owners that replace absolutely every part of their gun and are confused when the gun doesn't work anymore.

Also that oil is independently tested. Not tested by honda. Please, show me a graph by your oil that says anything different.

This is so overthought. Like what octane gas to use. It's gas.

Use 10-30 that works with the clutch system. All it does is lube the engine and then you throw it away.


I'm gonna run what the people who designed the machine and engine say to run. You can run something else. But you sure went through a lot of trouble and confusion to use someone else's stuff.

 

[Plumber101010]

You make it sound as if synthetic is this amazing beast and if you use regular oil it will wear out your engine.

It's oil. Use whatever you want. Honda wouldn't sell s***, and wouldn't recommend s*** oil.

Your logic reminds me of 1911 owners that replace absolutely every part of their gun and are confused when the gun doesn't work anymore.

Also that oil is independently tested. Not tested by honda. Please, show me a graph by your oil that says anything different.

This is so overthought. Like what octane gas to use. It's gas.

Use 10-30 that works with the clutch system. All it does is lube the engine and then you throw it away.


I'm gonna run what the people who designed the machine and engine say to run. You can run something else. But you sure went through a lot of trouble and confusion to use someone else's stuff.

Using Honda's oil IS USING SOMEONE ELSES. ConocoPhillips..

That's the point. Amsoil is Amsoil is Amsoil.

 

[Boomboom907]

Using Honda's oil IS USING SOMEONE ELSES. ConocoPhillips..

That's the point. Amsoil is Amsoil is Amsoil.

And who does honda recommend using? Amsoil or ConocoPhillips?

How do you not see the checkmate?

Also please explain in your own words why you think your going to get brownie points for using special oil that isnt reccomended in a 4wheeler?

You won't buy the honda oil because you don't want to be a chump and lose 3 dollars a quart on rebranded oil, but you will use oil not recommended by manufacturer in a 21k dollar rig? Is that about right?

 

[Plumber101010]

And who does honda recommend using? Amsoil or ConocoPhillips?

How do you not see the checkmate?

Also please explain in your own words why you think your going to get brownie points for using special oil that isnt reccomended in a 4wheeler?

You won't buy the honda oil because you don't want to be a chump and lose 3 dollars a quart on rebranded oil, but you will use oil not recommended by manufacturer in a 21k dollar rig? Is that about right?

I give up, you're right. Just ignore the all the research, the many articles by magazines and UTV/ATV like below:

http://link-disallowed/thread/184/honda-pioneer-synthetic-recipe-disaster

that has shown over and over and over and over again that synthetic oil blows away conventional.

Honda oil is Fords oil is a "whoever wants our oil" so they can use words like "specially formulated for..."

And you right now, is why they do it.

Checkmate? More like checkers compared to chess..

Read BoomBoom. Read. Research. Look farther than Honda wants you to look.

Nothing is more ridiculous than someone calling everybody "STUPID" when your facts and conclusions are wrong.

That's it for me I end it here. I'm not going to let this turn into a negative thread because of ridiculous and argumentative comments

 

[Plumber101010]

Won't let link paste so here is the article.. From HONDA PRO BOARDS!!!! FOR HONDA PIONEER!!!!

Whats wrong with synthetic oil?

That's a question a lot of people are left asking after hearing they shouldn't use it in their Honda Pioneer or other vehicles from some technician somewhere, or read it on the internet, or heard it from a guy who used it once and his engine imploded shortly after he added a quart.

I think the real question should be. What is wrong with mineral oil? Why do we keep hanging our hat on the antiquated technology of an unsustainable product? I think a lot of it is fear propagated by service techs that need oil changes to make money and have more customers more often. Let us not forget big oil. They have one of the biggest and most powerful propaganda machines. Synthetic is not in their best interest, until it is, it will gain bad press from any angle they can sling big oil sludge from.

Mineral (dino) oil has been around for 100+ years. It wasn't the first lubrication ever used though. Steam engines. You know, the ones that pulled giant trains and led the way to the modernization of our entire country? They were lubricated with tallow. Tallow is rendered form of animal fat. When oil was discovered in vast amounts just welling up from the earth. It was the cheapest most readily available lubricant for the quickly growing combustion engines. Refinement of petroleum oil is the only thing that has advanced as mineral oil will always be just that, minerals from the liquified remains of animals long past. Do we really think thats the best technology that we still have?

Synthetic oils have been around in large quantities since the 1980's for personal automobile use. Their development actually began in the workings of jet engines. As fighter planes and commercial jets started becoming more efficient, they produced more heat and more stress on the internal components. Friction and heat, which are the two main enemies of your motor, would turn the petroleum oil inside the test engines to a sludge of broken down molecules. That wasn't going to cut it. That's when we hit the lab and started improving on the properties of conventional oil. Soon, synthetic oil replaced regular oil, not only in testing, but in fleets of jets and fighter planes. These synthetic oils allowed jets to do even more. Soon we were punching jet fighters well past mach and that was due directly to synthetic oil.

The advantage of synthetic oil isn't only found in its ability to reduce heat and friction. It also is more resistant to low temperatures. As temperature drops, petroleum oils begin to thicken in consistency. That thickening causes more stress to starter and battery in order to turn an engine over during a cold start. Also, at start up the synthetics coating properties and fluidity aid in reducing start up damage from lack of ability of the oiling system to pump the tar like thickness of the mineral oils.

In cars, synthetic oils hit before technology, the opposite of what happened in jet planes. In the 80's, changing to a synthetic would sometimes lead to leaky gaskets as the properties of their design was to work with petroleum oil. Since the 80's motor technology has eliminated all issues once seen with synthetic in an engine. The only things in the way of synthetic becoming the norm are misinformation and greed.

Why would a tech tell me to not put synthetic in my Honda Pioneer? That's a pretty simple answer. It pays a lot better for them if you don't. Petroleum oils need to be changed more often, cause more heat and friction, cause more damage at start up, cause more damage in the cold, need to be changed more often, and cause build ups of sludge in internal parts. They also want you to be afraid to do your own work. They also don't want you bringing in your own oil for an oil change, because then they can't charge you the oil cost markup.

Why does my Honda Pioneer not come with synthetic oil if its so good then? That is a good question. The main reason is Honda thinks that the engine won't break in and seat everything correctly. They are counting on that heat and friction to finish their job. Not every manufacture is living in the dino oil age though. Any new Corvette comes with Mobil 1 full synthetic. Chevrolet has used synthetic in their flagship sports car since the late 1980's. In fact their owners manual calls for it specifically.

Kawasaki and Suzuki and Honda produce their own synthetic oils to sell with their products.

Can my Honda Pioneer use synthetic oil? What about the transmission, won't it be affected? Yes, it will be affected with better wear and less damage to its internals. It may even have a longer life.

What oil should I not use in my Honda Pioneer? You shouldn't use anything that doesn't meet the requirements laid out in your owners manual.

What's the drawbacks to synthetic in my Honda Pioneer? Frankly, the only ones that come to mind are price of the oil and less heat produced by the engine for people who don't want to wait for warm up or have heaters.

The Honda Pioneer not only can run on synthetic oil in theory but in practice. Mine runs on it every day I use it. I wouldn't run any less than a full synthetic. I'm not the only Pioneer owner who thinks this way.

I remember about a decade ago, the Harley mechanics told me I couldn't run synthetic in my bikes. Now they sell their own versions of synthetic and nothing has changed in that time with the Harley engine. The only thing that has changed is that they now can make money selling the synthetics that us owners have been using for years to quiet and cool the motors they produce. I saw a 30 degree temp drop in my Harley at idle. Not to mention how much quieter the workings of the motor are, smoother shifts, and better primary drive function. I would not run my ZX14R on anything but synthetic. The wet clutch function is way smoother and anything sitting under you spinning at 12,000RPM should be fed the best lubricant you can find. That's synthetic.

In closing, you are more than welcome to use whatever oil you want. It's your engine. I use synthetic as have others. It works fine in the Honda Pioneer. While in your warranty period, make sure that whatever oil you use meets requirements set forth by Honda.

Don't take just my word for it. Here is a couple companies touting the advantages of synthetic

 

[Plumber101010]

Good night