P1000 Confused as to which Amsoil Oil

[joeymt33]

Your mastery of the English language is showing again boom boom.

Calling everyone stupid because YOU chose regular over synthetic, a debate that will rage on for another few decades is probably not the best approach.

That's a chart made by Honda. Bet ya anything Amsoil has a chart too showing the opposite.

Seeing as how synthetics best upside is cold weather, I'd think Alaska is where it's better used.

Do you really think Honda makes its own oil, has a refinery outback, made specifically for its Honda engines?

It's a rebranded and relabeled like most. If you research this, you'll see the oil is identical, repeat identical to Ford motor oil, ALL MADE BY CONOCOPHILLIPS.

One of a zillion links: News from Petroleum Trends International, Inc.

So you think Fords oil, IDENTICAL to Hondas, was made with the P1000 in mind??? Or Hondas ENTIRE automobile engine line just happens to have the EXACT same Ford Motor Company?

Know WHY it's rebranded? Cuz Honda makes MONEY by doing so. They charge YOU more money selling YOU the same oil that can be found cheaper because it has Hondas name on it.

They have people that do nothing but take oil and put it under a microscope and break it down so you can see truly what kind of oil it is.

I trust those guys a lot more than I do a company that slaps a label on it and says "uses ours, its best"

And of course the best one, the fear factor, for warranty purposes... You are being had boom boom and that why people use Amsoil

I don't want anyone to be confused here and go buy Motorcraft for their pioneer.

Just because ConocoPhillips sells to Honda and Ford doesn't mean the oil is "relabeled".
Oil branded Motorcraft is not safe for use in a Pioneer. I want everyone to be clear on that.

One other thing, I pretty much use on Motorcraft in my ford trucks. The last one I traded which was two years ago had 270k and the engine didn't smoke, tick, or leak. I never even pulled a valve cover. That ConocoPhillips must be making great oil and it's reassuring to me that they are making Hondas oil(which I've known for a long time).
Think of all the money I saved over 270k by buying conventional Motorcraft instead of Amsoil!!

I know a "true" synthetic is a better lubricant but I also know that it's not needed if you use conventional oil and change it at normal intervals. Speaking of "true" synthetics, did you ever read my "oil education" thread?




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[Admin]

 

[ZZ15]

If they didn't have such a good reputation, I'd be more concerned.
It seems odd for a company to formulate and certify a product like that and not put it on their website or labels.
I'm sure its fine - just odd...

When they tested the oem branded ATV/UTV oils on the market, JASO MA (or any other spec for that matter) was not on their labels so it was not factored in at the time the labels were approved for printing.

Honda has recommendations, but their Honda brand fluids are for only one purpose, make them $$. That is why GM, Ford, John Deere, Polaris, Honda, Yamaha and every manufacturer with an engine all have their own house brands. They want a monopoly on what lubes you use in their equipment and they can specify, or create the impression that ONLY their oil be used in their equipment.


PS - I am using AMSOIL UTV40 (10W-40) in my 2006 Rincon 680 (wet clutch) and been driving it trouble free for over a year. For the 9 yrs prior I used nothing but Formula 4-Stroke Power Sports Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-40. This Rincon has had numerous users (family) and in 10 yrs / 4,000 miles the only problem was just recently, the brake cables needed to be adjusted because the brake light was on constantly.


The End.....

 

[ZZ15]

I don't want anyone to be confused here and go buy Motorcraft for their pioneer.

Just because ConocoPhillips sells to Honda and Ford doesn't mean the oil is "relabeled".
Oil branded Motorcraft is not safe for use in a Pioneer. I want everyone to be clear on that.

One other thing, I pretty much use on Motorcraft in my ford trucks. The last one I traded which was two years ago had 270k and the engine didn't smoke, tick, or leak. I never even pulled a valve cover. That ConocoPhillips must be making great oil and it's reassuring to me that they are making Hondas oil(which I've known for a long time).
Think of all the money I saved over 270k by buying conventional Motorcraft instead of Amsoil!!

I know a "true" synthetic is a better lubricant but I also know that it's not needed if you use conventional oil and change it at normal intervals. Speaking of "true" synthetics, did you ever read my "oil education" thread?




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Have a long time friend (since grade school) who used AMSOIL in his 2000 7.3L F350 4x4 Dually since new in 2000, changed oil every 15,000 miles but never more than once a year, sometimes even going 2 yrs and 20,000+ miles on nothing but AMSOIL. Early on his did some oil testing and after 20,000 miles the oil was still good. He pulls a huge 5th wheel trailer and tag along motorcycle trailer from Michigan to FL 2x/year via St Louis and his engine was never touched. Last spring he purchased an identical new truck and sold the 2000 to a local guy up here. It had about 250,000 miles and the engine, trans and axle were never touched other that to install AMSOIL in them back round 2000. His new 2015 F350 4x4 6.7L is running AMSOIL as well. His brother has a similar truck running the same oil. Larry (72 yo) left this week on his Gold Wing trike filled with AMSOIL 10W-30 M/C on a trip to Alaska, on his bucket list. His GW has over 50,000 miles running AMSOIL and changing oil once a year.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

Personally, I would use what the manufacturer recommended.

Being a design engineer now and putting things in specifications for customers, I don't have room in the customer literature to explain all the reasons why I am choosing a particular item in the specification or all the test reports detailing why I am choosing a specific item, but generally, if it is specified, there is a reason it is specified. Like most engineers, I am lazy and I want to go home and play and wasting time adding unnecessary specifications will eat into that.

Keep in mind, one of the things that makes synthetics so nice for an engine oil is all the additives in it that give it long life and enhanced lubricity. That enhanced lubricity may or may not be detrimental to your wet clutch.

 

[joeymt33]

Have a long time friend (since grade school) who used AMSOIL in his 2000 7.3L F350 4x4 Dually since new in 2000, changed oil every 15,000 miles but never more than once a year, sometimes even going 2 yrs and 20,000+ miles on nothing but AMSOIL. Early on his did some oil testing and after 20,000 miles the oil was still good. He pulls a huge 5th wheel trailer and tag along motorcycle trailer from Michigan to FL 2x/year via St Louis and his engine was never touched. Last spring he purchased an identical new truck and sold the 2000 to a local guy up here. It had about 250,000 miles and the engine, trans and axle were never touched other that to install AMSOIL in them back round 2000. His new 2015 F350 4x4 6.7L is running AMSOIL as well. His brother has a similar truck running the same oil. Larry (72 yo) left this week on his Gold Wing trike filled with AMSOIL 10W-30 M/C on a trip to Alaska, on his bucket list. His GW has over 50,000 miles running AMSOIL and changing oil once a year.

You are exactly right, That is a great benefit of the true synthetic oils. It is a good idea to use a bypass filtration system when going extended miles.

I've looked into it multiple times but I just can't bring myself to do it. I would rather change the oil and give the vehicle a thorough inspection.

After looking into it, you need to do regular filter changes, a bypass filter kit, oil analysis every 5k, and still need to top it off with oil after those services.

I just figured I'd stay with what works and it's less time consuming and doesn't need an upfront investment. Plus like I said, I like to perform my own services and know it's done right. That's the reason I built a shop with a 14' ceiling, I finally saved enough to put my own two post lift in.

In short, going for extended service intervals is the only reason I would go true synthetic. There is a benefit there and if I could have enough trust to go 10k between oil analysis and filter changes but I'm just not ready yet.

I will never be the guy that buys synthetic because it performs better and then change it at normal intervals. I also won't put it in my SXS because I've changed both gear oils and sub trans oil now due to water contamination. That synthetic gear oil is high as giraffe cooter!


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[Jbird]

Since I will be looking to Honda to make good if my clutch fails I don't really want to be dealing from a weak place by using some oil that is not recommended by Honda. Maybe when I feel confident that the clutch issues have been identified and addressed by Honda I'll feel differently. I am skeptical about product hype... Just like watching pro motocross. Do you really think Dungy and Rockzen jump off their bike after the 450 main with their heart rate maxed out and wolf down an energy drink full of caffeine or do you suspect those cans have water in them?

 

[Plumber101010]

I don't want anyone to be confused here and go buy Motorcraft for their pioneer.

Just because ConocoPhillips sells to Honda and Ford doesn't mean the oil is "relabeled".
Oil branded Motorcraft is not safe for use in a Pioneer. I want everyone to be clear on that.

One other thing, I pretty much use on Motorcraft in my ford trucks. The last one I traded which was two years ago had 270k and the engine didn't smoke, tick, or leak. I never even pulled a valve cover. That ConocoPhillips must be making great oil and it's reassuring to me that they are making Hondas oil(which I've known for a long time).
Think of all the money I saved over 270k by buying conventional Motorcraft instead of Amsoil!!

I know a "true" synthetic is a better lubricant but I also know that it's not needed if you use conventional oil and change it at normal intervals. Speaking of "true" synthetics, did you ever read my "oil education" thread?




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To be clear, the Automotive line of Honda oil was found to be identical across the board, down to the molecule, of Ford.

Not the UTV line of oil. Point was if the Honda motor oil for autos was the same as Fords, what is their 4 stroke oil identical to?
Surely, someone's brand of 4 stroke somewhere.

If they weren't willing to design their own special oil for the autos, where sales are probably 10,000 to 1, and the profit is 10,000 times as high because more quantity is sold, they sure didn't bother to do anything special for its motorsports line

 

[Plumber101010]

You are exactly right, That is a great benefit of the true synthetic oils. It is a good idea to use a bypass filtration system when going extended miles.

I've looked into it multiple times but I just can't bring myself to do it. I would rather change the oil and give the vehicle a thorough inspection.

After looking into it, you need to do regular filter changes, a bypass filter kit, oil analysis every 5k, and still need to top it off with oil after those services.

I just figured I'd stay with what works and it's less time consuming and doesn't need an upfront investment. Plus like I said, I like to perform my own services and know it's done right. That's the reason I built a shop with a 14' ceiling, I finally saved enough to put my own two post lift in.

In short, going for extended service intervals is the only reason I would go true synthetic. There is a benefit there and if I could have enough trust to go 10k between oil analysis and filter changes but I'm just not ready yet.

I will never be the guy that buys synthetic because it performs better and then change it at normal intervals. I also won't put it in my SXS because I've changed both gear oils and sub trans oil now due to water contamination. That synthetic gear oil is high as giraffe cooter!


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Up until five years ago, so up until 50 years old, I too would not use anything but and was stuck on conventional. I had mentioned that in one of my post.

Reason was because I picked frequency over quality. I like to change the oil every 3000 miles. I was just stuck that made good sense. Not wanting to waste money dumping synthetic every 3000 miles, it just wasnt a good financial decision.

I started reading and researching one article after another. Started reading where companies would do oil analysis, things like that, and started to figure out that replacement every 3000 miles was just a total waste of money.

Still, I wanted nothing to do with it. I just couldn't do it. I had been changing the oil every 3000 miles for 20 some odd years and I wasn't going to change now!

This went on for a long time until finally, I realized, I was just being hardheaded in my own beliefs.

Wasn't easy... Not until joining some GM forums and listening to these guys actually sending oil samples down and hearing oil was still good at 7500 miles, it was still good to go, not until manufacturers started actually putting in their owner manual 7500 mile changes versus 3000, did I finally bend.

Point again, is if this article had been written five years ago, I would be agreeing with you Joey

The truth is, the research, the facts, can just no longer be ignored. It's too predominant, it's too factual, it's too scientific.

Synthetic is superior to conventional.

Now everyone can make a guess about the wet clutch and all I can say is this. No one really knows. I too have come across many articles on the wet clutch issues and many were running the Honda oil as well.

 

[tig]

So you think Fords oil, IDENTICAL to Hondas, was made with the P1000 in mind??? Or Hondas ENTIRE automobile engine line just happens to have the EXACT same Ford Motor Company?

Know WHY it's rebranded? Cuz Honda makes MONEY by doing so. They charge YOU more money selling YOU the same oil that can be found cheaper because it has Hondas name on it.

They have people that do nothing but take oil and put it under a microscope and break it down so you can see truly what kind of oil it is.

I trust those guys a lot more than I do a company that slaps a label on it and says "uses ours, its best"

And of course the best one, the fear factor, for warranty purposes... You are being had boom boom and that why people use Amsoil

The oil may not have been designed with the machine in mind, but I'd bet they built the machine with a certain oil in mind.

The fact that you are willfully ignorant regarding the mechanics of the machine yet you still insist that Amsoil is the best (because they told you so and your buddies cousin's dog sitter ran it in his 7.3 and it didn't blow up even once) makes you just as much a shill for Amsoil as a blind support of "Honda" oil does for the other guys. The only difference is that theirs is actually in the manual.

 

[joeymt33]

I've always said synthetic is a better lube, no disagreement there. However, I'm not paying the higher price because I've wore out every vehicle I own and not had to pay for oil lubricated repairs at all. Why change my system and by the higher-priced oil if I have no problems with what I'm doing?


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[joeymt33]

I also want to say that everybody can have their own opinion on this. There is no right or wrong. I am not trying to convince anyone the way I do it is better than the way they do it.


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[Plumber101010]

The oil may not have been designed with the machine in mind, but I'd bet they built the machine with a certain oil in mind.

The fact that you are willfully ignorant regarding the mechanics of the machine yet you still insist that Amsoil is the best (because they told you so and your buddies cousin's dog sitter ran it in his 7.3 and it didn't blow up even once) makes you just as much a shill for Amsoil as a blind support of "Honda" oil does for the other guys. The only difference is that theirs is actually in the manual.

I don't insist, I insist that all of the other experts say it's the best...

I don't have to know about the mechanics of the machine, I just have to know that the experts know the mechanics of the machine, and the experts say it's better to use Synthetic.

I just listed an entire article by Honda pros, pro's meaning professionals, professionals meaning the ones that DO know. And they say??? It's superior across the board.

So by your logic, because I don't know how a wet clutch functions, the information they wrote about is inaccurate?

Have you read that article I posted? I mean, it's kind of hard to dispute, when it's coming from Honda professionals, specifically, Honda UTV professionals.

 

[Plumber101010]

As Joey said, everybody gets to do whatever they want to do to their machines.

I'm going to use Amsoil. If you don't want to, you don't have to.

But surely, you don't have the right To call
someone stupid if they don't... Unless they call you stupid first!

OK, I'm ready to move on to something different. I made my points and I backed them up with facts.

Only reason I made a reply today was because Joey had made a real good point and I agreed, I didn't want people running out there buying Honda motor oil and burning up their machine!!

 

[tig]

Only reason I made a reply today was because Joey had made a real good point and I agreed, I didn't want people running out there buying Honda motor oil and burning up their machine!!

LOL. Just had to quote this so we can sum the thread up with this jewel right here.

 

[Plumber101010]

LOL. Just had to quote this so we can sum the thread up with this jewel right here.

You haven't been following the posts... Was referring to AUTOMOBILE engine oil NOT wet clutch approved...

 

[joeymt33]

I've always said synthetic is a better lube, no disagreement there. However, I'm not paying the higher price because I've wore out every vehicle I own and not had to pay for oil lubricated repairs at all. Why change my system and by the higher-priced oil if I have no problems with what I'm doing?


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For clarification:

When I say wore out, I mean the truck is beat up and would need new body work, interior, suspension, etc. but the tier 3 oils I choose to use have not failed me. So if I used Amsoil, I would end up in the same exact situation. I would have a beat up spent truck that was mechanically sound. The amsoil would have thinned my wallet more than the tier 3 oils but as far as the vehicle goes, I would still trade it after I "got the good out of it".

Not everyone's situation is the same though. Some people may want to go 20,000 miles without doing an oil change. Or, some people that live in extreme environments may actually need a better performing oil. There are other reasons I guess, like a street car that doubles as a weekend racer or something. Anyway, that's why there's no right or wrong here, Just pic one.


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[joeymt33]

I put some more thought into this and I figured out there are two categories of people when it comes to choosing oil. Those that make decisions based on their emotions and those that make decisions based on financial return. If synthetic oil makes you feel better, great. There is nothing wrong with that. This is a free country and you are entitled to do what makes you happy. Then there are those that put a calculator to it and make their decision based on financial return.




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[Plumber101010]

I put some more thought into this and I figured out there are two categories of people when it comes to choosing oil. Those that make decisions based on their emotions and those that make decisions based on financial return. If synthetic oil makes you feel better, great. There is nothing wrong with that. This is a free country and you are entitled to do what makes you happy. Then there are those that put a calculator to it and make their decision based on financial return.




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I think you hit the nail on the head. We are all individuals with individual needs. Some people are meticulous and have the time to make sure they change the oil every 3000 and don't over rev their engines and take it easy and take it kind. if so, you're probably do just fun fine with regular oil.

Then you have those like me, as I get older I get lazier. Currently have 12,000 miles on my diesel and havent changed the oil and I feel good knowing I'm running synthetic to get that extended range.

Sometimes I am 4 wheeling and don't realize I over rev my engine, sometimes I do abuse it and I like knowing synthetic is in there.

The only thing is when your factoring in cost, it's really a trade-off doesn't cost you any more money.

If you change the oil every 3000 at X amount of cost, and synthetic at 12,000 at X amount of cost (and actually I have a 25,000 mile oil filter and a 25,000 mile change range but I would never push it that far and do 1/2, so 12,500) and 12k is my limit, you're getting four times the range and as such four times less you're changing conventional.

If you do it yourself it's a trade-off, if you pay someone to do it, you actually come out ahead running synthetic.

So cost is not really a factor if you factor in the intervals are much longer.

 

[Plumber101010]

Didn't know oil would destroy my machine. Seems to have worked pretty well for everyone for the last 100 years. Didn't it get us through ww2?

I'm gonna run anal lube from now on. You never even have to change it, and it's clear so that's way better. Experts have looked at it and said it performs better than conventional lube, and has a much longer lasting coating. Builds less friction, and doesn't gel up.

I mean the manu doesn't say I shouldn't run anal lube.

Also, by using anal lube, if something bad happens to me like it did to youknowwho, at least it won't hurt as bad when the dealer gets ahold of me

Feelers go out to youknowwho. Sorry dog. Hope you get back in your seat soon. Should have ran amsoil.

Blind leading the blind. You don't have a clue what we are even talking about right now, but you think you do, and this just hysterical to me!!!! You're way off subject and that happens when you're not reading and comprehending and following the post thinking you know what you're responding to!

It also happens when you're so anxious to make fun of people, aren't you? Not even following what we're talking about, and anxious to make someone look like a fool!

Why people can't be civilized and talk like adults, without always being jerks, I'll
Never understand.

But I suspect it's because you're looking to vent because of a rotten life.

The subject matter was pertaining to the fact that we wanted to make sure nobody was using regular oil that was not wet clutch approved, NOT synthetic versus regular.

 

[joeymt33]

I think you hit the nail on the head. We are all individuals with individual needs. Some people are meticulous and have the time to make sure they change the oil every 3000 and don't over rev their engines and take it easy and take it kind. if so, you're probably do just fun fine with regular oil.

Then you have those like me, as I get older I get lazier. Currently have 12,000 miles on my diesel and havent changed the oil and I feel good knowing I'm running synthetic to get that extended range.

Sometimes I am 4 wheeling and don't realize I over rev my engine, sometimes I do abuse it and I like knowing synthetic is in there.

The only thing is when your factoring in cost, it's really a trade-off doesn't cost you any more money.

If you change the oil every 3000 at X amount of cost, and synthetic at 12,000 at X amount of cost (and actually I have a 25,000 mile oil filter and a 25,000 mile change range but I would never push it that far and do 1/2, so 12,500) and 12k is my limit, you're getting four times the range and as such four times less you're changing conventional.

If you do it yourself it's a trade-off, if you pay someone to do it, you actually come out ahead running synthetic.

So cost is not really a factor if you factor in the intervals are much longer.

That puts you in the calculator category Plumber. You are using synthetic in your truck to give you a financial/time advantage. I haven't got to that point yet as I have a routine. I put my truck on the lift at every 5k and open up my excel spreadsheet. I log tread depth in three places per tire, log plug gap every 15k, check pad thickness and check rotor thickness, etc.

Heck, just yesterday I put the pioneer on the lift after all that creek running and lubricated everything that moves, checked all fluids for the presence of water, checked brakes on that too, etc.

As far as abusing your atvs, if you drive a Honda, don't worry about it. I have an 03' foreman that has lived on the rev limiter. My pioneer go pedal usually finds the floor daily. I'm not an abuser but I ride pretty hard. I've been told that the rev limiter is set with in the safe zone for the engine. It hurts nothing. Now if Honda gave you a higher rev limiter or more throttle if you used synthetic, I would jump all over that. But Honda says that engine is speced to use standard oil with in the parameters they set. If you go outside of those parameters with power adders and such, you may need the extra protection of synthetic.

I'm glad this thread has gotten back on track with some sensible thinking and conversation vs arguing.

Oh, one more thing. The rev limiter may sound bad when the rpms hit it but it's just an ignition cut off. There's nothing bad mechanical happening. It's just Honda protecting us from ourselves. I would question other manufactures that have a history with short engine longevity, they may have their rev limiter set too high. I believe Honda has a little more cushion to protect the engine. Think about this, 72hp from a 999cc engine. Other manufacturers are pushing over 100hp out of the same displacement. Those engines may need the extra protection of the synthetic and a driver that takes it easy.

Tired of typing now, c-ya





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