Engine Oil

[Mlaz81]

Hello, I know this topic has been beaten to death. I'm really not trying to start anything here. All my friends have been telling me that I HAVE to start using amsoil in my new 500. Apparently, according to them, the consequences for not doing so will result in explosions/communist takeover of the world. This is my first Honda, they all have 15-20 year old Hondas, some with over 10k miles on them. So, I've only owned Yamahas previous to this, used the cheap yamalube, 20$ a gallon on rocky mountain for my machines and have never had an engine problem. They keep talking about how this machine is different, has a geared transmission, and I should use the amsoil. I can see their point, 12k miles using amsoil is pretty impressive. What I'm not impressed with is when I do the math and see how much more he has spent to get to 12k. I guess what my question is, is there really any quantifiable evidence that my machine will last longer spending three times the cost for an oil change? Will it actually save me money in the long run? If so, I'm on board. It is just hard for me to justify the cost when I've had zero problems using the cheap dino yamalube for so many years. I appreciate any help here.

 

[Admin]

 

[alloutdoors]

Hello, I know this topic has been beaten to death. I'm really not trying to start anything here. All my friends have been telling me that I HAVE to start using amsoil in my new 500. Apparently, according to them, the consequences for not doing so will result in explosions/communist takeover of the world. This is my first Honda, they all have 15-20 year old Hondas, some with over 10k miles on them. So, I've only owned Yamahas previous to this, used the cheap yamalube, 20$ a gallon on rocky mountain for my machines and have never had an engine problem. They keep talking about how this machine is different, has a geared transmission, and I should use the amsoil. I can see their point, 12k miles using amsoil is pretty impressive. What I'm not impressed with is when I do the math and see how much more he has spent to get to 12k. I guess what my question is, is there really any quantifiable evidence that my machine will last longer spending three times the cost for an oil change? Will it actually save me money in the long run? If so, I'm on board. It is just hard for me to justify the cost when I've had zero problems using the cheap dino yamalube for so many years. I appreciate any help here.

I’m confident data exist to show wear differs between various oils and I’m not going to get into which is better.

As for myself, I use GN4 and have been running Honda’s for 40 years without a single oil related failure and suspect that trend will continue.

 

[lee]

Keep using the Yamalube you’ll be fine. Just make sure it’s the stuff rated for a wet clutch.

And tell your buddy if you knew about the oil defect you would have stuck with a Yamaha. That should shut him up.

 

[DG Rider]

I guess what my question is, is there really any quantifiable evidence that my machine will last longer spending three times the cost for an oil change?

At this point, there is (or should be ) little question that synthetic oils like Amsoil provide superior protection against wear. The real question people have to ask themselves is "do i really need that level of protection?", and the answer for most everyone is no. But with us humans, it's really more about what we want than what we need, and after dropping the coin on a new toy, we want the very best for it. Kinda like new parents buying expensive diapers...for a while.

I'm not sure why your friends think the tranny is anything special in the 500. Yeah, it's a "geared" transmission, but most streetbikes/dirtbikes all still have that, and your Yamaha also had a subtranny that used gears as well, and shared the engine oil...I'm assuming you had an Ultramatic CVT machine of some sort ( That's not true of all CVT machines, so maybe thats where the friends are confused ). They all do fine on non-synthetic.

So the answer is, no, you don't have to use Amsoil or even synthetic to get good service life...and IMO, 12K is not all that big a deal, depending on how the machine was used. As stated above, the specs for the oil laid out in the manual are what you need to be concerned about, and ANY quality oil that meets those will do quite well.

That said, i always used synthetics simply for the improvement in shift quality on any "shifted" machine i owned, and the 500 would fall under that category (if i owned one). On the 700, i used synthetic because the warm up time in cold weather was greatly reduced before the machine could be moved without slippage (a common 700 trait). That included Amsoil, Mobil 1 motorcycle, Honda synthetic...and lastly, Rotella T6, which is cheaper than some dino bike oils. I really couldn't tell much difference between them, and the only reason i tried the Amsoil was that the local NAPA started carrying it at a good price.

So...you...maybe might want synthetic, but you certainly don't need it. And you don't need Amsoil if you do go syn.

 

[oldfortyfive]

The best reason to use a synthetic in my mind is they provide better protection in the event of other problems like loss of coolant and overheating damage before you realize it happened. It's saved me more than one over the years with my cars.

 

[JTW]

@KYhillbilly is our resident oil expert!

 

[KYhillbilly]

If you change at regular intervals and the oil meets the specs then it makes little difference. Amsoil does not make any oil, they just buy and package. That does not mean its not good oil. Also to be called synthetic does not necessarily mean it was built from the ground up from a methane molecule to be a PAO. I used to work at Valvoline and we would run all different oils in test engines and we saw very little difference in oils. Back before all the current specs there was a difference with some of the true Penn grade oil base stocks causing a lot of sludge because of the high paraffin content. With the new GF5 SN specs all oil conventional or synthetic are excellent.

Used to be conventional was a mixture of light and heavy to make the desired base weight, now with the new specs both conventional and synthetic have a very narrow distillation band and do not have the burn off issues or sludge issues.

 

[Farmer]

I wish I could find that article I read where the guy says automotive oil is ok for motorcyles. He said something about auto oil has stricter guidelines with their qualifications and oils like... (I'll use Honda oil here).... have a way easier testing level or process. Basically motorcycle GN-4 standards are easier to get or qualify for and that auto oil is (my words here)...is over qualified.

 

[Neohio]

GN4 is relatively inexpensive. $25ish a gallon. Not a pocket breaker by any means.

 

[KYhillbilly]

I wish I could find that article I read where the guy says automotive oil is ok for motorcyles. He said something about auto oil has stricter guidelines with their qualifications and oils like... (I'll use Honda oil here).... have a way easier testing level or process. Basically motorcycle GN-4 standards are easier to get or qualify for and that auto oil is (my words here)...is over qualified.

as long as you are not running a wet clutch then yes automotive oil is fine, if running a wet clutch you need "motorcycle" or oils with friction modifiers like you use in a limited slip rear end. I am not familiar with the 700 and 1000 trannies if they use automatic transmission fluid or the engine oil for fluid, the 500 is a wet clutch.

 

[swsebek]

GN4 is relatively inexpensive. $25ish a gallon. Not a pocket breaker by any means.

Exactly
and recommended as well by Honda......
That way you don't have to ask or question it.....OIL Threads

 

[Mlaz81]

Exactly
and recommended as well by Honda......
That way you don't have to ask or question it.....OIL Threads

Not always. Honda is a business. They exist to make money, which is why they brand oils, to make money.

 

[swsebek]

Honda exists because they are very cautious and their superior reliability.Making money or being on top for the most units sold are no way they're agenda...Most of the time way too cautious for my liking..The GN4 cycle oil is what they used in there testing. Not this oil or that oil but GN4..Putting in other brands will just leave it up to you...which is fine...But if Honda was interested in making money on its oil then it would be 30 bucks a gallon and the book would say.. "Void warranty for other oils being used" Time after time Honda lags behind because of caution,When us REAL Honda guys know they could dominate all sales and units sold if they just were less cautious...So you will never get me to believe that they just want to sale oil by putting their name on it... They want reliability for their machines by offering the oil they have tested in countless tests with great success and confidence....

 

[DG Rider]

...then it would be 30 bucks a gallon and the book would say.. "Void warranty for other oils being used" ...

At which point the gubment would step in and remind them that this practice is illegal.

So, my question is which endlessly tested oil data do they rely on; the current one, or the one supplied by a previous supplier? Or the one before that?

 

[alloutdoors]

I suspect "OIL" has been one of the most discussed items on all forums, and from my 2-3 years on various forums, I have not seen any post to date showing a quality oil failed to provide protection vs. most engine related problems resulted from abuse, i.e., hydro lock, or similar.

 

[Farmer]

Dammit, I can't find it again. I'm not trying to support one type vs the other just saw it when I was checking my options. It did seem to debunk the whole motorcycle oil myth. It is funny though... Some farmers insist on using John Deere oil. I kid you not that the Citgo truck backs right up to their bulk tanks and the big green 5 gallon JD bucket says filled from bulk by JD. LOL. I currently own 3 Honda's. The pioneer gets Hondalube and the old trx350 and 300 4x4's get farm and fleet oil.

I'm adding that farm and fleet oil is $14/two gallons.

 

[lee]

@Farmer there are a lot of variables.
Most of which don't matter.

A Harley can use auto oil (most I should say) the trans is seperate from the engine.
Wet clutch vehicles - Japanese ATVs, motorcycles and (I think) only Honda SxS need so called motorcycle oil.
But only to keep from contaminating the clutch with modern friction modifiers.

Auto oil thease days is all about reduced friction.
The auto makers are under the gun to make there fleet average 50 mpg.
And I wish them luck, even with trucks that get 20 mpg its not going to happen.
Especially since 60% of the market is light trucks now.

So the auto makers are doing anything they can to get better numbers.
After VW got caught cheating I think that method is not going to work anymore.
So if they can spec out an oil that gives some small gain or comes up to operating condition faster they are going to jump on it.

So if some Internet expert only looks at one variable, like wear then modern oil is over spec.
My sugestion would be to look at what is important to your vehicle.
The p500 and p700 have clutch material that runs in the engine oil.
But they are ATV engines - lots of history with this type of system.
So a quality oil suitable for motorcycle use is a good starting point.

The p1k also has a wet clutch but it is different in that it has a new type of control circuit for the clutch.
There is no history out there - and for this reason a person would do well to ignore the snake oil sales pitch.
I would recommend sticking very closely to what Honda recommends.
This suggestion prioritises oil selection for the control circuit above clutch contamination, engine wear and cost.
And it will be the minority opinion, either ignored or flamed.
I wish thouse guys good luck (your going to need it)

 

[Budman]

GN4 the win

 

[jinx]

My Dads fatherly lesson some 40 odd years ago...
"What's the best oil Dad?"..."Clean oil"
"How often do you change your oil Dad?"..."when it's not clean oil" lol

 

[Mopower58]

All those years I was self employed and worked on power strokes and Cummins I always used 15w40 diesel oil. I used which ever Advanced Auto had on sale,not shell rotella, not Dello 400, and I never ever had an oil failure.