Which, I suppose, is to not drive in snow? Ya know, the machine could have just stayed at the dealership, that would be even cheaper!
Which, I suppose, is to not drive in snow? Ya know, the machine could have just stayed at the dealership, that would be even cheaper!
Not with SxS' but with other equipment: yes. Unless you have a good way to at least block most of the wind, a secondary heater generally doesn't work so well.
I will have to say, though, that some supplemental heat isn't always a bad thing. Over time, its effect is noticeable, but not really quantifiable. For example, many people in my region prefer air-cooled snowmachines over liquid-cooled, not only because of their simplicity, but because they produce a bit of waste heat directed at the rider. One or two newer liquid-cooled work sleds had radiators included as part of their cooling apparatus (as opposed to inter-coolers above the track, exclusively) just so there could be some heat for the rider.
However, all this makes for "slightly less cold." Don't expect a car-like experience of warmth and comfort without a cab enclosure.
Here's an analogy: Pull the windshield off an old convertable and ride it on the coldest day of the year. Will turning the defroster on make much of a difference? In my case, it was a CJ-7 with the windshield down and the doors off. Not the coldest day of the year, thankfully, I wouldn't have gone with him. Must have been... 0f? I'm still not sure what point my friend was trying to make (this was in high-school).
I just did some figurination. Yeah, it was so precise that I had to make up a word.
The heater I mentioned earlier in this thread claims a maximum output of some 18,000 BTU. I very, very, highly doubt that it can or will ever produce that amount of heat with the P-500 unless it's subject to significant and special conditions. The heater core might be rated at 18,000 BTU, not the same as getting that from a P-500. Claiming that they can make 18,000 while insinuating normal conditions seems rather disingenuous.
18,000 BTU equates to about 7 horsepower, if my math is right (I admit, it may not be).
How much of a Pioneer 500 engine's potential energy is wasted as heat? 7 horsepower? In other words, a bit less than a third of CARB's stated output? I'm dubious. Reciprocating ICE engines might seem inefficient until you look closely. They're pretty darned good at making heat into movement. Not all that heat is used, unfortunately, but seven horsepower worth of heat lost?
I'm getting into the weeds now, but I think it would be very interesting to learn what the volumetric efficiency of the P-500 engine is. It's probably not special, but in terms of the amount of waste heat that can be used, as well as other factors (there's a guy trying to turbo a P-500, supercharging might be better, depends on VE) different tuning strategies might be more efficacious. Um... and darn it, I want my heater to work.
The heater I mentioned earlier in this thread claims a maximum output of some 18,000 BTU. I very, very, highly doubt that it can or will ever produce that amount of heat with the P-500 unless it's subject to significant and special conditions. The heater core might be rated at 18,000 BTU, not the same as getting that from a P-500. Claiming that they can make 18,000 while insinuating normal conditions seems rather disingenuous.
18,000 BTU equates to about 7 horsepower, if my math is right (I admit, it may not be).
How much of a Pioneer 500 engine's potential energy is wasted as heat? 7 horsepower? In other words, a bit less than a third of CARB's stated output? I'm dubious. Reciprocating ICE engines might seem inefficient until you look closely. They're pretty darned good at making heat into movement. Not all that heat is used, unfortunately, but seven horsepower worth of heat lost?
I'm getting into the weeds now, but I think it would be very interesting to learn what the volumetric efficiency of the P-500 engine is. It's probably not special, but in terms of the amount of waste heat that can be used, as well as other factors (there's a guy trying to turbo a P-500, supercharging might be better, depends on VE) different tuning strategies might be more efficacious. Um... and darn it, I want my heater to work.
I agree with FlyingPot8oh in stopping the wind.
I have a full windshield with Honda full top and doors. When driving there is a lot of wind leak.
I made some wind deflectors out of garage door bottom seals.
They made a huge difference in staying warm.
I have a full windshield with Honda full top and doors. When driving there is a lot of wind leak.
I made some wind deflectors out of garage door bottom seals.
They made a huge difference in staying warm.
trigger
Old Ironsides
Vendor
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Always cheaper to leave it at the dealer but you just had to have it! Rest easy friend, towing that thing home was a great decision. 😉
Whether blocking heat, dust, noise or cold these will help isolate the cab. Designed and built to be bullet proof for a machine built the same way.
P500 - For Sale: Rubber Noise/Heat Shield
As anyone who owns a P5 knows, the noise that comes from behind you is loud. Especially with a roof and windshield on, it just reverberates off of them. Another issue is with the heat that comes up between the seats and the seat belt latch area, just ride through a puddle with a hot engine and...
hondasxs.com
S
Honey picked up $15 closeout seat heater this week from WM. My doors aren't even on yet but huge upgrade in comfort. Only tried low setting but plenty comfy at 30*. Surprised at the low amp draw. High setting I think is 3+ amps. While machine is warming up so are they. Nice $15! Hmmm, remote start???
I have soft doors and use pipe insulation to fix the fitment issues especially by the hood with the non Honda windshield. I have a propane golf cart little buddy heater mounted in the passenger floor board and a 12v defroster on the dash.
Mudder
NTC Ambassador of Walls
Lifetime Member
I always have an extra but never ride that long, but i have sat an entire day in a deer blind on one bottle.
I'm worried about dioxide and nioxide. I've played with such heaters... rolled the dice
Well, I only thought again about this yesterday, and I can't imagine why it wasn't part of my first question:
Blocking the radiator.
It's common practice, with some success, to block the radiator.
With diesel machines it makes a great deal of difference in cold temps. Mining equipment, trucks, even school buses, they all use "weather fronts" AKA "cold fronts."
A covering, usually vinyl with a cloth backing, covers the grille forward of the radiator. There's usually a split in the middle to allow a fold-back to allow more airflow if you need more but not all. With diesels I work with, there is an extreme effect at road speed.
When my FJ-55 was a daily driver, a CAD (Cardboard Affected Deflector) made a HUGE difference in cold weather, regardless of the status of the thermostat.
I'm going to have to experiment with this, which should have been obvious to me, with the P-500.
It's harder to give real impressions, as I don't yet have a water temp gauge or a cab heater.
I wonder, the FJ-55, buses, Cat 785 Haul Trucks, cars, trucks, etc, they all have their engines at the front. Mid engine? I'm pretty sure no one has tested a Ferrari 308i at -20c
... shux, I just tried to to find some images, came up short. When I tried to get specific, ran into Chris McCandless images. Ugh.
Blocking the radiator.
It's common practice, with some success, to block the radiator.
With diesel machines it makes a great deal of difference in cold temps. Mining equipment, trucks, even school buses, they all use "weather fronts" AKA "cold fronts."
A covering, usually vinyl with a cloth backing, covers the grille forward of the radiator. There's usually a split in the middle to allow a fold-back to allow more airflow if you need more but not all. With diesels I work with, there is an extreme effect at road speed.
When my FJ-55 was a daily driver, a CAD (Cardboard Affected Deflector) made a HUGE difference in cold weather, regardless of the status of the thermostat.
I'm going to have to experiment with this, which should have been obvious to me, with the P-500.
It's harder to give real impressions, as I don't yet have a water temp gauge or a cab heater.
I wonder, the FJ-55, buses, Cat 785 Haul Trucks, cars, trucks, etc, they all have their engines at the front. Mid engine? I'm pretty sure no one has tested a Ferrari 308i at -20c
... shux, I just tried to to find some images, came up short. When I tried to get specific, ran into Chris McCandless images. Ugh.
Thanks!
However, my setup isn't complete, nor ideal. A previous owner lost the windscreen weather seals, and I haven't yet mounted the full doors. A family member still has a project taking up the garage space, gall-dern-it.
Also, your photos are suspiciously green and most un-snow-like. ;P
S
Hugh? The heater works off of the coolant temperature in the engine, this temperature is controlled by the thermostat and should be consistent regardless of running it through a heater or not. It should not take any horsepower away from the engine. Someone help me if I am wrong.
ICE engines convert heat into kinetic energy. They usually produce more heat than they can convert, so need to be cooled. In a liquid cooled machine, this is done with the radiator, exchanging coolant(water) heat to the air via conduction and convection. This also means that some of that waste heat can be re-directed into the cab with a heater. The aftermarket cab heater I'm referring to claims a maximum output of 18,000 BTU, a measure of heat. Quick math suggests that 18,000 is the equivalent of about 7 horse power in terms of energy. I was questioning whether the P-500 engine is so inefficient that a quarter of total power produced was wasted heat. In other words, even though the heater core might be capable of producing 18,000 BTU, it's unlikely that anyone could extract that much waste heat from a P-500.
S
The Green Goat
LGBTQ Compliance Officer -Lotta gays in this place
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
Anyone found a higher temp thermostat for the P5? Or rigged up someway to redirect coolant around the radiator so it runs a bit hotter in the winter? Might make a heater more effective. Im just brainstorming here. Not sure if either of those are feasible or even a good idea.
Put small piece of cardboard in front of radiator during extreme cold
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Smitty335
Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
Supporting Member
