I am working on it.
This is where I'll put the solenoid.
Here is what I ordered:
So the theory behind it is that before applying the brakes, I'll energize the solenoid to stop the oil flow to the rear brake, the press the bake pedal thus sending oil pressure only to the front wheels hoping it will lock the diff like it does on the Rubicon or any other Honda ATV....
Once your out of your "Bad position", I'll cut the power to the solenoid and get brakes on all Wheels again.
I'll let you guys know.
Montecresto
Montecresto el segundo
Lifetime Member
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Sounds like you have a great plan! Good luck, I hope that works. A easy and inexpensive modification if it does.
I'm gonna ramble a bit.
Ok ,so the spline count on the Honda 500 axles up front are 25 on the diff and 24 in the hub spindle.
But,the 700 uses two different splines in the diff, 23 on the left and 25 on the right, but of course the CV joints can come off the axle shaft and I really don't know what those axle shafts use for a spline count...are they all the same from Honda or are they also different? Do the axle shafts themselves maintain consistency on spline count? If so that would help in a big way.
Do we know what the actual ratio of the 500 and 700 front diff?
I ask because in talking with a guy that makes the internal gear reduction sets for the Honda ATV's that use this engine and trans, the count of the teeth on the internal ring and pinion is not the final answer there, diameter is, not the count like in the rear end of a car. Bigger teeth are cheaper to make and while noisier might be stronger.
It seems that in the case of internal gearing the diameter is the factor, a larger gear might have bigger teeth so that can screw with our math. Knowing that I am curious if counting gear teeth on the front diff is the final answer here. So I ask, what are the actual ratios of the 500 & 700 differentials? Has anyone found that yet?
Ok ,so the spline count on the Honda 500 axles up front are 25 on the diff and 24 in the hub spindle.
But,the 700 uses two different splines in the diff, 23 on the left and 25 on the right, but of course the CV joints can come off the axle shaft and I really don't know what those axle shafts use for a spline count...are they all the same from Honda or are they also different? Do the axle shafts themselves maintain consistency on spline count? If so that would help in a big way.
Do we know what the actual ratio of the 500 and 700 front diff?
I ask because in talking with a guy that makes the internal gear reduction sets for the Honda ATV's that use this engine and trans, the count of the teeth on the internal ring and pinion is not the final answer there, diameter is, not the count like in the rear end of a car. Bigger teeth are cheaper to make and while noisier might be stronger.
It seems that in the case of internal gearing the diameter is the factor, a larger gear might have bigger teeth so that can screw with our math. Knowing that I am curious if counting gear teeth on the front diff is the final answer here. So I ask, what are the actual ratios of the 500 & 700 differentials? Has anyone found that yet?
That is not a ratio though..its a gear count correct? I ask because I am seriously thinking Honda might have outsourced these differentials and if we know actual ratios we might just find a donor diff from another brand entirely.
that is the gear count, ratio is derived from dividing the ring gear by the pinion. so the 500 is 4.08 and the 700 is 3.46
I am not saying that you are wrong, but please re-read my post. Are we certain that R&P math is a constant here? These are not a 9" ford or GM 12 bolt. Because from what I have learned gear tooth counts don't determine ration on the internal gear sets in the trans, so it may not be the determiner here,hence my question. Gear diameter is the determiner, not the teeth count. A larger diameter gear might (or might not) just have larger teeth.
At this point, the best you can do is upgrade your suspension to help keep all four tires equally loaded. I'm sure you already know that any form of the stock suspension will not do that. Take a look at the p5 suspension thread for several good mods that will completely transform the machines traction and ride characteristics, and get it to (IMO) about 80-90% closer to 'locker' traction in most terrain, except mud and snow. The steering is already pretty heavy on the p5, and I can only imagine what it would be like with a spooled front end, and the tire wear would be crazy. And I pray someone builds a locker for this machine soon, that doesn't require replacing/re-inventing the whole front end!
Ya, it's all about tooth count. I have to deal with gear ratio differences often working with stern-drive and outboard gear cases, and all sorts of other gear related stuff for over 30 years (now I feel really old) What's worse on the P5, is that the front diff. ratio is different from the rear, according to the parts list, so apparently, there's an additional reduction gear in the transmission that is spinning the front and rear driveshafts at different speeds, and the gearing in the differentials is where the correction is made for equal wheel speed. Crazy. Still don't know if the ring and pinion from the P5 case will fit the 700 locker case. Even if it does, it's still gonna be an unreasonable amount of money to get a locker set up from Honda parts bins. Not un-doable, just un-reasonable.
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I guess we can just go out and count rotations of the input shaft and compare it to the axle rotations, compare the front to the rear and be certain. If they are the same (even though it looks like they should not be) then sumthins up.
you may be on to something according to manuals a p500 has 53/13 in front and a 53/21 in the rear. the 700 has 45/13 in both and the 1000 has 44/13 front and 54/16 in the rear. i checked my 2015 foreman 500 because it has the same engine, the gear teeth on it are 42/13 front and 41/20 rear. maybe there is something different on the final shaft out of the transmision to compensate?
Has to be. I'd love to talk to the engineer that designed these set-ups. I'd really like to know why they do this. I know for a fact that the front and rear wheels are ultimately driven at the same speed, cause I've driven mine for miles on pavement in 4wd and never felt the slightest indication of binding. Having gears made specifically to compensate for different shaft speeds just doesn't make sense from a production standpoint, so there must be an important advantage somewhere in that set-up. More importantly, we still need to find out if the gear sets are interchangeable from one case to the other- I hope they do, but I'm feeling doubtful at this point. It must cost Honda a fortune just cutting different gear sets for every machine they make! I see this in the Honda Marine side too, some of they're mid-size outboards have a gear reduction under the engine, as well as the gear reduction in the gear-case(lower unit), but they only advertise the gear-ratio of the lower unit. On the V6 outboards, (except 250) the gear ratio is way too high and makes prop selection a p.o.a. Honda works in mysterious ways..... Sorry for the ramble.....
trigger
Old Ironsides
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Do a quick search on Alibaba for a UTV locking differential and you will be amazed at what you find. I just don't see why we need to do anything other than find a locking diff with the same ratio and modify the buggy. The front bracket that holds our diff in bolts onto the frame.
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