Front differential lock ?

[Bastardchild]

Im really interested in the line lock also, that being said though, i have countless times now, noticed only one wheel was spinning in the front while i had it in 4wd, tapped the brake pedal and whaalaa, both front wheels start pulling and get me out. It seems this is a controversy on the internet whether this is a myth or a fact. I can tell you it definitley works about 7 or 8 out of 10 times. However, i would loooooove something i can lock where it works every time. I'll be watching this thread for sure.

 

[Admin]

 

[pFive]

I cant see me hitting the brakes while trying to go up a hill that I already have trouble climbing...if one front wheel is off the ground stopping is not on the top of my list of things to do. We need a left/right joystick to lock the brakes up on whatever wheel is in the air. Or, maybe just welding the front diff once my warranty is done.

 

[Bastardchild]

Good point pfive. I was looking at it from a mudding standpoint, not a hillclimbing standpoint. I know sandrails have cutting brake levers to lock up one wheel at a time, i wonder if that could somehow be plumbed in for your idea.

 

[illinoisdave]

ok i was still working on this and looking for ideas. just some random figures i came up with. 24" stock tire covers 75.4" per revolution so wheel has to turn 840.3 revolutions to cover 1 mile. if i can go 40 mph that is 33612.73 revolutions per hour or 560.2 rpm. assuming at 40 mph i am at the rpm limit of the engine of 8500 rpm i have a 15.18 gear reduction from engine rpm to wheel rpm. looking at the transmission output shaft it appears to be straight through so front and rear are spinning at the same rpm. different teeth counts on the ring and pinion cant be the final ratios. i know there is a gear reduction in the transmission to the output shaft. i still want a front locker lol

 

[pFive]

I would spend $500 on one, of any of these companies made one.

 

[Bad_bowtie]

I would spend $500 on one, of any of these companies made one.

Ditto, if someone will make us a front locker, I will buy it.

 

[JWB]

Good point pfive. I was looking at it from a mudding standpoint, not a hillclimbing standpoint. I know sandrails have cutting brake levers to lock up one wheel at a time, i wonder if that could somehow be plumbed in for your idea.

I looked at the cutting brake idea too, and there is one that will fit, and it's actually pretty simple to plumb in, but if you can't see the front wheels, you won't know which wheel to brake. It will definitely do the job, but hard to manage in deep mud or water where you need momentum to keep moving. We just need a friggen locker! Oh ya- $500- in a heartbeat!

 

[Bastardchild]

Yeah im sure people would be interested if someone put cutting brakes on. I have a locker dreamed up in my head, kinda like a lincoln locker, but one that can be undone incase i start breaking too many c.v.'s or incase its just too damn hard to steer. I have to look at schematics again to see if it would work the way it works in my head. I cant really explain it. The 2 halves of the locker can be welded onto the seperate gears in the diff, then aligned and bolted together to make the diff locked. If it ends up breaking cv's too often or is too hard to steer, i can pull the diff out, open it up, unbolt the 2 halves from each other, and the diff would be unlocked again but the parts would still be welded to each gear, just not bolted to each other. I need to study the diff a little though. I might just be having visions of a different type of diff in my head. Lol

 

[Bastardchild]

I studied it up a little more. I believe the gears i would have to weld on are housed inside of part # 26. It doesnt show it on the schematics, but i believe there will be 2 gears facing each other inside part # 26 with an 'idler' type gear between them. (I am guessing at this, if im wrong, please feel free to correct me.) Anyway, in a lincoln locker situation, you would weld the 'idler' gear to the 2 bigger gears that are facing each other, and the whole assembly will then turn as one. My idea was to weld pieces of metal tubing across from one gear to the other. But one piece of tubing would slide inside the other. Drill holes in the tubing and bolt them together. Weld the nuts on the inside of the inner piece of tubing so you only need a socket for the bolt heads. There would be more to it than that, but thats the jist. Bikebandit, and partsfish both call part #26 a 'case', which im thinking is a typo. Im thinking the case would be the aluminum housing, but what do i know. Then i started looking at the price. Bikebandit wants $173 for part # 26, and partsfish wants $156 for part # 26. That got me to thinking, if part #26 works like i think it works, i could just buy it, weld the living hell out of the gears in part # 26 in my existing front end instead of making the bolt on thingy. Then when and if i start breaking too many cv's, or if its too hard to steer, i can take the welded up part out and install the new part. That is if part #26 is labeled correctly, and the price is correct also. I think $156-$173 is a little cheap sounding for this part. Anyway, im tired of typing just like im sure youre tired of reading. Im just thinking out loud.

 

[rocmar]

I studied it up a little more. I believe the gears i would have to weld on are housed inside of part # 26. It doesnt show it on the schematics, but i believe there will be 2 gears facing each other inside part # 26 with an 'idler' type gear between them. (I am guessing at this, if im wrong, please feel free to correct me.) Anyway, in a lincoln locker situation, you would weld the 'idler' gear to the 2 bigger gears that are facing each other, and the whole assembly will then turn as one. My idea was to weld pieces of metal tubing across from one gear to the other. But one piece of tubing would slide inside the other. Drill holes in the tubing and bolt them together. Weld the nuts on the inside of the inner piece of tubing so you only need a socket for the bolt heads. There would be more to it than that, but thats the jist. Bikebandit, and partsfish both call part #26 a 'case', which im thinking is a typo. Im thinking the case would be the aluminum housing, but what do i know. Then i started looking at the price. Bikebandit wants $173 for part # 26, and partsfish wants $156 for part # 26. That got me to thinking, if part #26 works like i think it works, i could just buy it, weld the living hell out of the gears in part # 26 in my existing front end instead of making the bolt on thingy. Then when and if i start breaking too many cv's, or if its too hard to steer, i can take the welded up part out and install the new part. That is if part #26 is labeled correctly, and the price is correct also. I think $156-$173 is a little cheap sounding for this part. Anyway, im tired of typing just like im sure youre tired of reading. Im just thinking out loud.

View attachment 42950 View attachment 42951

Do it.....my buddy did it.on atv..yrs ago
.....created him more problems with other
things...I been without it..since having
the p5....so gave that up..to have other
options...the p5 gives.....
p5 is on there 3/4 yr....you ain't seen it
added...probably won't
IMO

 

[rocmar]

All Honda's ideas & money is given
to the Bigger more expensive models... (clutches).....
P5...gets color changes.
That's it...

 

[illinoisdave]

when you get this thing out please take some pictures. my thought was to take the spider gears out and replace with a mini spool. the perfect setup would be a limited slip type clutch pack inside. but that is my experience with car/ truck differentials i dont know if there are major differences in this type of differential and the automotive type.

 

[Bastardchild]

when you get this thing out please take some pictures. my thought was to take the spider gears out and replace with a mini spool. the perfect setup would be a limited slip type clutch pack inside. but that is my experience with car/ truck differentials i dont know if there are major differences in this type of differential and the automotive type.

No problem, i will take pics and post them like i always do. This mod will have to take a backseat to the other things im doing for now though. I got a 28' pontoon boat that i stripped down and fiberglassed the deck, now its time for gelcoat and to put the boat back together and get it on the water, to the springs and the lake. I also am working on my aluminum roof project for the P5. The diff lock is definetley something i need to do though.

 

[pFive]

I studied it up a little more. I believe the gears i would have to weld on are housed inside of part # 26. It doesnt show it on the schematics, but i believe there will be 2 gears facing each other inside part # 26 with an 'idler' type gear between them. (I am guessing at this, if im wrong, please feel free to correct me.) Anyway, in a lincoln locker situation, you would weld the 'idler' gear to the 2 bigger gears that are facing each other, and the whole assembly will then turn as one. My idea was to weld pieces of metal tubing across from one gear to the other. But one piece of tubing would slide inside the other. Drill holes in the tubing and bolt them together. Weld the nuts on the inside of the inner piece of tubing so you only need a socket for the bolt heads. There would be more to it than that, but thats the jist. Bikebandit, and partsfish both call part #26 a 'case', which im thinking is a typo. Im thinking the case would be the aluminum housing, but what do i know. Then i started looking at the price. Bikebandit wants $173 for part # 26, and partsfish wants $156 for part # 26. That got me to thinking, if part #26 works like i think it works, i could just buy it, weld the living hell out of the gears in part # 26 in my existing front end instead of making the bolt on thingy. Then when and if i start breaking too many cv's, or if its too hard to steer, i can take the welded up part out and install the new part. That is if part #26 is labeled correctly, and the price is correct also. I think $156-$173 is a little cheap sounding for this part. Anyway, im tired of typing just like im sure youre tired of reading. Im just thinking out loud.

View attachment 42950 View attachment 42951

I wonder what would happen if #22 were thicker?
Also, instead of welding I wonder if you could drill and insert a hard steel dowel pin somewhere to lock it in place? I imagine the gears and bits are all hardened so that may be tough. I have read on hotrod forums that when you have the option of spider gears you can just weld in a few spots to allow the gears a slight bit of motion to reduce immediate bind,when you get it apart and have pics that are better than a drawing we may have a better idea I guess.

 

[Bastardchild]

Pfive, i have read a thread somewhere on here where someone said they stacked washers in the front diff of a certain Honda atv model (cant remember the thread or the model) and it made the front diff a locked front diff. I wonder if shim #22 would do the same thing? You may be onto something.

 

[pFive]

It may just fill the diff with shavings, but I doubt it would harm anything....also, a shim made from derln or hard plastic stacked in there would be interesting.

 

[Martin]

Sounds like you have a great plan! Good luck, I hope that works. A easy and inexpensive modification if it does.

I got it all installed and it is working. It is not a front locker per say but when you're stuck, it will get you out of your bad position.... I finally installed it on the solid brake line under the driver's seat and connected it to a switch. I'll post picture this weekend.

 

[Martin]

any updates on the line lock? i would really like to know if this works

It's working fine. I'll post picture this weekend.

 

[illinoisdave]

i had mine on jack stands doing measurements and i did a rough check of gearing. i rotated the rear tire one complete revolution and the output shaft from the transmission made about 4 revolutions. so the parts books are either wrong because they show a 53/21 ring gear/ pinion gear or there is a different way to calculate this.

 

[pFive]

Did you do the same with the front and count the rotations?