Good gun for open carry.

[Dp5hunter]

Man u where probably righting that at the same time I was.

 

[Admin]

 

[Crow_Hunter]

If you open carry and become a target in a situation, chances are they are going to miss because they haven't had their stolen gun long enough to get used to it. They never practice, and they hold it sideways because that's what thugs do in the movies. Lol

You a making the assumption that the person isn't trained in handguns, that they are working alone and that they don't just grab your weapon first.

Even if you get lucky and that person is working alone and they don't understand how to make hot and they get it from you, what are you going to do? Tackle them? Do you have experience/training in ground fighting? Do you have a readily accessible backup weapon that you can draw and use?

What about legal and moral ramifications? Lets say a guy gets the drop on you, and snatches your weapon but you are able to draw a concealed backup weapon and stop the perp but in the impending chaos, someone tramples a toddler? Someone's grandmother has a heart attack or stroke and dies? What if they get off a shot and like you mentioned above, miss you but hit someone else, like a baby in a stroller?

What if someone who is just afraid of guns, sees your weapon and panics and yells "GUN!, HE'S GOT A GUN!" and the above happens?

Or someone decides to be the hero and tackles you thinking you are a danger to the public and tries to get your gun and you, thinking they are a criminal use deadly force to prevent a gun grab?

Are you prepared legally (retained lawyer) and fiscally (Liability insurance in place) and prepared to go to court do defend yourself? Could you sleep at night knowing you caused the deaths of theses innocents because you felt the need to have a gun visibly on your hip rather than concealed? Are you prepared to be held culpable in a court of law?

What if you were SWATted? Are you prepared to be held at gunpoint by heavily armed police officers? Do you know what to do and what to say to deescalate the situation? Are you and your family prepared for you to be held face down on the pavement with a knee in your back until everything can be sorted out?

There are variables at play with open carry that don't exist in concealed carry that you have to be prepared for.

 

[Dp5hunter]

Amen brother.

 

[Code54]

Wow - Nice job Crow-Hunter - excellent responses!!! He offers a LOT of good advice.

Open carry = The person that is the first target. How hard is it for me to get the "drop" on you when I know you are armed?? You are going to be distracted, it happens.....

There is an extreme amount of responsibility in carrying a firearm in public and you have a lot of other things to consider. Don't forget there are a lot of well trained armed LEO's in plain clothes out there and when the bullets fly you need to HOPE they realize you are the good guy and not just an " active shooter." Sometimes the best course of action is not using the firearm and certainly not letting the "bad" guy know you have one. With open carry that entire option is off the table and you are in the fight regardless of it it the best course of action for a given situation. If you have the option of concealed carry you may want to reconsider.

 

[sharp]

You a making the assumption that the person isn't trained in handguns, that they are working alone and that they don't just grab your weapon first.

Even if you get lucky and that person is working alone and they don't understand how to make hot and they get it from you, what are you going to do? Tackle them? Do you have experience/training in ground fighting? Do you have a readily accessible backup weapon that you can draw and use?

What about legal and moral ramifications? Lets say a guy gets the drop on you, and snatches your weapon but you are able to draw a concealed backup weapon and stop the perp but in the impending chaos, someone tramples a toddler? Someone's grandmother has a heart attack or stroke and dies? What if they get off a shot and like you mentioned above, miss you but hit someone else, like a baby in a stroller?

What if someone who is just afraid of guns, sees your weapon and panics and yells "GUN!, HE'S GOT A GUN!" and the above happens?

Or someone decides to be the hero and tackles you thinking you are a danger to the public and tries to get your gun and you, thinking they are a criminal use deadly force to prevent a gun grab?

Are you prepared legally (retained lawyer) and fiscally (Liability insurance in place) and prepared to go to court do defend yourself? Could you sleep at night knowing you caused the deaths of theses innocents because you felt the need to have a gun visibly on your hip rather than concealed? Are you prepared to be held culpable in a court of law?

What if you were SWATted? Are you prepared to be held at gunpoint by heavily armed police officers? Do you know what to do and what to say to deescalate the situation? Are you and your family prepared for you to be held face down on the pavement with a knee in your back until everything can be sorted out?

There are variables at play with open carry that don't exist in concealed carry that you have to be prepared for.

You took my post way too serious. I was making a joke about stereotypes. I understand what you were talking about above but the "what if" senerios are never ending.

 

[IdahoPioneer]

So now everyone's shooting toddlers........ Anyone who makes the decision to open carry and hasn't considered the potential risks is not ready for the responsibility.

If I applied some of your logic to my every day life I would never leave the house and constantly live in fear of some awful scenario that might happen. I could get in a car wreck tomorrow with a mother and her toddler. What if they die?

There is risk around every corner in this world. I choose to live my life, knowing the risks. Granted in my neck of the woods the risks are extremely low.

 

[snuffnwhisky]

Another thought, with a smaller CC gun you have the option to CC or open carry as the situation permits. Like the gas station scenario, been there several times, my CC gun moves to a easier access location.

 

[JTW]

So those of you who advocate open carrying, if you are out in public and you see a guy open carrying, what do you do?

-Do you just ignore him and go about your business in Condition Yellow (or maybe even White) and assume that he is a law abiding individual?

-Do you only pay attention if he is a non-white male?

-Do you immediately move up to Condition Orange, mentally mark him as a potential target and keep your eye on him more than others and always keep some type of modicum of cover between yourself and him because you don't know what his motives are?

Hopefully it is answer # 3. If it isn't, you are going to be of no use in a real incident. In almost every shooting incident, a normal looking white male walks into a public space open carrying a weapon in his hand and suddenly he starts shooting.

When you are open carrying, particularly as a white male, you are distracting other people from real threats.

That's why I carry f*cking nunchucks and ninja stars!!

 

[JTW]

So now everyone's shooting toddlers........ Anyone who makes the decision to open carry and hasn't considered the potential risks is not ready for the responsibility.

If I applied some of your logic to my every day life I would never leave the house and constantly live in fear of some awful scenario that might happen. I could get in a car wreck tomorrow with a mother and her toddler. What if they die?

There is risk around every corner in this world. I choose to live my life, knowing the risks. Granted in my neck of the woods the risks are extremely low.

I think there in is the issue... we're not all in the same part of the country. What's ok for me and you to do in Idaho or Kentucky is a completely different scenario in other places.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

So now everyone's shooting toddlers........ Anyone who makes the decision to open carry and hasn't considered the potential risks is not ready for the responsibility.

If I applied some of your logic to my every day life I would never leave the house and constantly live in fear of some awful scenario that might happen. I could get in a car wreck tomorrow with a mother and her toddler. What if they die?

There is risk around every corner in this world. I choose to live my life, knowing the risks. Granted in my neck of the woods the risks are extremely low.

It is all about risk management a simple equation:

A + B = C

If you take A out of the picture, C isn't a result.

Your example of a car wreck isn't equatable.

Unless you are willfully introducing a controllable variables like intentionally running stop signs, driving recklessly, etc. Then in that scenario, yes you are adding in a controllable variable that will make you culpable. An accident is an accident, having a gun in an open holster that winds up being used to harm someone either directly or indirectly when it could have been concealed and eliminated the threat isn't an accident.

If you are willfully and intentionally doing something, in this case carrying a weapon in public, and your actions result in harm of another, you are morally and legally responsible for that.

The question then becomes, why do that?

What benefit do you have for carrying a weapon openly as a civilian versus concealed?

There are no positives, only negatives.

And before you go there, yes, you can get to your weapon faster openly carried but seriously think about that. If you need to draw your weapon, assuming you aren't already shot or stabbed or tackled (because you were obviously armed), you will be trying to draw against someone who is already actively doing harm. At least with a concealed weapon, you have the element of surprise and not being the focus of the attack allow you to move "off the X" and get into a tactically superior position allowing you to neutralize the threat.

Also take into account according to the FBI UCR, 8% of police officers killed in the line of duty were murdered with their own duty weapons. So nearly 1 in 10 police officers killed in the line of duty wearing body armor, carrying a radio, probably with a department mandated back up weapon with paid for training had their weapon taken from them and used to kill them. Hopefully you have better equipment, training, mindset and situation awareness and luck than those unfortunate police officers.

Apparently we will just have to agree to disagree but hopefully others reading this will take all the variables in and digest it.

 

[Jbird]

We are in an open carry state and we also have concealed carry. One odd caveat is that if you have a CCL you cannot open carry. The reason given for this from the local sheriff is that your CCL states that you must keep your weapon concealed. He also said that he had no knowledge of anyone being cited for this. In our county no one open carries even though they can. People carrying open would scare people who don't understand gun laws and stir up the anti gun nuts. If a situation turns ugly in a store or restaurant, open carry just tells the bad guy who to shoot at first. I would prefer that his first hint that I am armed is when he hears the bullet headed for center mass.

 

[Plumber32]

So those of you who advocate open carrying, if you are out in public and you see a guy open carrying, what do you do?

-Do you just ignore him and go about your business in Condition Yellow (or maybe even White) and assume that he is a law abiding individual?

-Do you only pay attention if he is a non-white male?

-Do you immediately move up to Condition Orange, mentally mark him as a potential target and keep your eye on him more than others and always keep some type of modicum of cover between yourself and him because you don't know what his motives are?

Hopefully it is answer # 3. If it isn't, you are going to be of no use in a real incident. In almost every shooting incident, a normal looking white male walks into a public space open carrying a weapon in his hand and suddenly he starts shooting.

When you are open carrying, particularly as a white male, you are distracting other people from real threats.

I just smile. I think it's great he's doing it . but I know better. Tons of videos on YouTube that show what happens . put your hands up so they believe you are not a threat. and when they are distracted you can act.

 

[IdahoPioneer]

Your example of a car wreck isn't equatable.

It certainly is. I have a few co-workers that choose not to drive because they don't want the responsibility.

Not driving = concealed carry
Driving = open carry

I could choose not to drive and completely eliminate the possibility of being in an at fault accident. I, like most, choose to accept the risks knowing that something horrible could happen.

 

[Crow_Hunter]

It certainly is. I have a few co-workers that choose not to drive because they don't want the responsibility.

Not driving = concealed carry
Driving = open carry

I could choose not to drive and completely eliminate the possibility of being in an at fault accident. I, like most, choose to accept the risks knowing that something horrible could happen.

You are actually arguing that not doing something at all is the equivalent of doing something but doing it different?

So to put it another way, your argument is that not walking at all is equivalent to wearing open toed sandals while walking instead of boots?

So you have used a very strange argument to deflect from answering the question about risk management.

What benefits do you get from open carry over concealed carry that outweigh the risks of open carry?

The only argument that I can see is that you can't legally carry a concealed weapon due to age (under 21), infirmity (can't physically conceal a gun), or legal status (past criminal history) as defined by Idaho law. Unless you just like people to notice you.

Is there something I am missing?

If you or others want to open carry, why not contact your local police/sheriff department and become a volunteer reserve deputy? You won't get paid for it and it can take up your spare time plus you will get a lot of the crap jobs like traffic control at HS football games or transporting prisoners but you will be able to carry openly, you will have body armor, a radio, and most importantly you will be helping your local LEOs and freeing them up to look for real criminals and you will have the full weight of the law behind you from a moral and legal standpoint.

But I don't live in Idaho, maybe it is like an Hollywood Western or a SASS competition and everyone is walking around with "big iron" on their hips, and open carry makes you a "shoot me first" target in a sea of "shoot me first" targets and concealed carrying make you a target because you are the only one that doesn't have a gun showing.

 

[moparornocar]

Just to be clear I am in North West Wisconsin, for the most part it's about as rural as it gets, which is a suburb of Eau Claire, a 97 percent Caucasian college town. My biggest concern of open carrying is some Bernie loving college kid freaking out and calling the cops. im reading all your responses and am truly greatful for all your insights and opinions. I do however agree that you could go on and on forever about what ifs of open vs concealed, driving, don't drive, smoke vs dip, etc etc. That's the kind of fear mongering I try to avoid. I am a very aware citizen concerning my surroundings at all times. Military and Leo family has taught me that in my 34 years not a single person has ever snuck up on me that I wasn't aware of, but I understand your points. I will consider all my options before making a choice, as any intelligent individual should.

 

[moparornocar]

Another entirely valid reason for carrying openly, all of y'all's posts abt the fear of open carry is why. America is afraid because they aren't used to it. The Kool aid drinking lefties are never going to get used to this being OUR America if we keep hiding to make them feel "safe" when that thing on your hip, in your belt or in your pocket may very well be what's keeping them safe. It's time to quit hiding and pretending to make everybody comfortable

 

[IdahoPioneer]

Another entirely valid reason for carrying openly, all of y'all's posts abt the fear of open carry is why. America is afraid because they aren't used to it. The Kool aid drinking lefties are never going to get used to this being OUR America if we keep hiding to make them feel "safe" when that thing on your hip, in your belt or in your pocket may very well be what's keeping them safe. It's time to quit hiding and pretending to make everybody comfortable

Exactly. My chance of winning the lottery is much higher than any of these fear mongering situations. The specific analogy doesn't matter. The point is people make decisions every day on how to do something. They don't always choose the lowest risk option, but that doesn't mean they're wrong.

I also carry to do my small part to guide public perception. I'd say 99% of the time it works. On the practical side it's more comfortable and I get to carry what I want to instead of settling for something small enough to conceal on my thin frame. I carry my LCP when I have to but it's tiny and kindof irritates me no matter how I carry it.

 

[moparornocar]

I also don't dress like a gangster or a combat soldier when I'm out in public. I dress like an every day American, very unintimidating. Shirt tucked in jeans and work boots. That's half the battle. If you look scary, then people are scared. I look like such a terrorist pushing my 2 year old around in a buggy while chasing down sippy cups covered in cheeto dust....

 

[moparornocar]

Went out shopping today, found what may be my favorite gun I've ever held in my hand. picked up this little beauty today. Taurus titanium tracker Colt 45. Read dozens of excellent reviews and its light but solid. I love it

 

[CumminsPusher]

I'm firm believer in safety. Extra round safely carried as well. Disengage the safety at all times your carrying and that any fear goes away. The trick is to know your weapon. Practice. I'm firm with Beretta's anything under 1/2 million rounds they won't let you down. Wife's gun 92fs inox 9mm 20 rounds. Mine m9a3 chambered .357 18 rounds. Both have in gun guide-rail laser and under 2 pound trigger. No recoil and they don't miss we both conceal.