Govt Mule 2024 Talon 1000R Parts Addition Thread

[GovtMule]

The tender spring plus the main spring give you an over all effective spring rate. That will determine the load it can carry. What it also allows is the spring to feel softer in the beginning while still being stiffer at the end. I am not saying it is always the best for all circumstances. I was just curios why Honda felt no need for preload adjustment. Must be a reason. GM may find the factory set up perfect . Let the suspension settle a bit then adjust depending on what you want. Or not

Gonna make some runs in it just to break it in and such. Won’t even adjust the shocks until after the first oil change.

 

[Admin]

 

[CID]

... I was just curious why Honda felt no need for preload adjustment. Must be a reason. GM may find the factory set up perfect . Let the suspension settle a bit then adjust depending on what you want. Or not

This would be a major fubar on Honda's part, IMO. @GovtMule could you post a photo of the top of your shock spring? Use a flashlight or something so we can see it, like I did in the photo in post 73. Looking for a threaded shock body and a preload and a locking ring.

 

[Hello_Darkness]

This would be a major fubar on Honda's part, IMO. @GovtMule could you post a photo of the top of your shock spring? Use a flashlight or something so we can see it, like I did in the photo in post 73. Looking for a threaded shock body and a preload and a locking ring.

The Showas have no threads, on the main or tender springs.

 

[DRZRon1]

Interesting that they would do that

maybe its like the rzr's where the tender is just to put pressure on the main spring when extended so basically no tender ?- just a main spring, I am seeing it correct that the shows are not threaded so no adjustment for ride height?

at least they have an actual schrader valve instead of a basketball fill nipple - lol -

I hate to say it - my 2013XP poo poo with the fox suspension was kinda good, rode well slow speed and the faster you pushed it, the more is sucked up the bumps without dumping money into the bringers, honda should steal the poo poo suspension guru's.

 

[Hello_Darkness]

The Showas have no threads, on the main or tender springs.

If no one has noticed they also took away the different colored seats as well. There all black now

 

[Hello_Darkness]

Had to pay for that new power steering upgrade somewhere I suppose

 

[906UP]

Ok, first off - I'm not arguing, just trying to understand the engineering. Most of you guys have been doing this longer than my 4 years.

I've heard that theory and it made sense but I 'thought' that the tenders carried the lighter loads, providing a softer ride, lower spring rate at lower speeds. Using them to only capture the lower spring at droop, wastes much of their capabilities, the biggest being load bearing at a lower spring rate. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the aftermarket springs, from everyone, will use a tender that's long enough, with enough spring rate, to act like the first gen Talons; and most every off road race vehicle since the invention of crossover rings. That's assuming that the Showas are still using crossovers.

Again, not trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to understand better. We'll know soon enough, Richard and the aftermarket will fill us (me) in.

Sorry about the thread hijack, GovtMule. 😊

This article explains the function pretty well.

When are Tender Coils ok to use? – AccuTune Off-Road

accutuneoffroad.com

 

[Mudwisel]

There are helper springs and tender springs. They are sometimes confused with each other.I have seen the terms interchanged which is not really correct. Tender will soften spring rate at beginning. Helpers keeps spring in place. The ones on the talon appear to be more of a helper spring. They each have a different purpose. I glad GM posted pics of the shocks. Good to see what manufactures are doing. Interested to see how they perform and why Honda went this route on the talon. Sometimes factory nails it right

 

[JayPo]

If no one has noticed they also took away the different colored seats as well. There all black now

I noticed

 

[CID]

There are helper springs and tender springs. They are sometimes confused with each other. i have seen the terms interchanged which is not really correct. Tender will soften spring rate at beginning. Helpers keeps spring in place. The ones on the talon appear to be more of a helper spring. They each have a different purpose. I glad GM posted pics of the shocks. Good to see what manufactures are doing. Interested to see how they perform and why Honda went this route on the talon. Sometimes factory nails it right

I had been told that 'tender' was the wrong term to use on the original Talon R crossover shocks but he didn't mention the proper term at the time. Tender has become the default term for dual springs on the internet and it will take some time to undo that terminology error. I really need to hit Utoob University and get a better understanding of dual spring shocks. Note that the first Talon X's don't have crossover rings, only dual springs - that may have changed with the newer X's, not sure.

fwiw: it's my understanding that coil binding a spring will cause it to fail (break), crossover rings can be adjusted to prevent that, one of their purposes.

My concern with no preload adjustment - every one of us carries a different amount of weight, whether gear or people. How is one supposed to adjust their ground clearance for those wildly varying loads if there's no preload adjustment? Note that the spec'd ground clearance defines the chassis' running geometry, including CV angles. It's even mentioned in the manual that the front should be X amount higher than the rear. With no preload adjustment available, how does Honda think we're going to do that?

 

[Mudwisel]

I had been told that 'tender' was the wrong term to use on the original Talon R crossover shocks but he didn't mention the proper term at the time. Tender has become the default term for dual springs on the internet and it will take some time to undo that terminology error. I really need to hit Utoob University and get a better understanding of dual spring shocks. Note that the first Talon X's don't have crossover rings, only dual springs - that may have changed with the newer X's, not sure.

fwiw: it's my understanding that coil binding a spring will cause it to fail (break), crossover rings can be adjusted to prevent that, one of their purposes.

My concern with no preload adjustment - everyone of us carries a different amount of weight, whether gear or people. How is one supposed to adjust their ground clearance for those wildly varying loads if there's no preload adjustment? Note that the spec'd ground clearance defines the chassis' running geometry, including CV angles. It's even mentioned in the manual that the front should be X amount higher than the rear. With no preload adjustment available, how does Honda think we're going to do that?

It adds more confusion to most when even different vendors use the terms interchangeably. Your concerns are valid and definitely make adjustments more involved. As you probably know if you have to increase preload a lot to get ride height, set sag or what ever you are sacrificing ride quality and should go to different spring rate. probably best thing is to start different tread about shocks.

 

[Jason W]

I agree 100%. I guess that’s why mine is the panty dropper

Yeah buddy, cause they shat there self seing a boat motor in the woods.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

The shocks on my Talon R were built and set up by Double E Racing. The top ring on mine is used for pre-load (1.75") and the crossover ring is my ride height adjustment. Top spring is only there to keep the bottom springs from falling out at full extension and isn't used for dampening. Not having the short top spring super pre-loaded in the rear stops the bucking due to the springs having less stored energy and its much easier to get the valving correct when you are only dealing with a single spring rate per corner.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

And all 4 of my Fox shocks have the high/low compression adjusters on them now. Those QS adjusters were not cutting it for my application and were swapped out. Honda is on to something with these new Showa shocks.

 

[GovtMule]

And all 4 of my Fox shocks have the high/low compression adjusters on them now. Those QS adjusters were not cutting it for my application and were swapped out. Honda is on to something with these new Showa shocks.

Thanks for that info. It all makes sense. I have no complaints!

 

[Mudwisel]

And all 4 of my Fox shocks have the high/low compression adjusters on them now. Those QS adjusters were not cutting it for my application and were swapped out. Honda is on to something with these new Showa shocks.

Fox does that a lot on their for the masses products regardless of the sport. Great for someone who wants better than OEM. The parameters are more for general riding. Its nice to be able to fine tune if you know what you want and how to get there. There is no reason these showas cant be good. some of the best shocks, forks I have had have been Showa if set up properly

 

[Backwoods]

What kind of wheels and tires are you thinking?

 

[DRZRon1]

Fox does that a lot on their for the masses products regardless of the sport. Great for someone who wants better than OEM. The parameters are more for general riding. Its nice to be able to fine tune if you know what you want and how to get there. There is no reason these showas cant be good. some of the best shocks, forks I have had have been Showa if set up properly

agree 👍!

buy boy did Honda miss the mark on the gen1 talons with the Fox stuff - not a Fox issue - they will build anything - just so far off the mark for most of the masses

 

[Mudwisel]

agree 👍!

buy boy did Honda miss the mark on the gen1 talons with the Fox stuff - not a Fox issue - they will build anything - just so far off the mark for most of the masses

Yep sometimes they build to what the factories are telling them and its not always good

 

[Mudwisel]

What kind of wheels and tires are you thinking?

Whats wrong with stock?